Orphaned Charcoal 3 roll 2 Zegna Couture Jacket as Blazer/Sport Coat with jeans

[potatoch1p]

I bought this jacket from ebay for $150 with the intention of wearing it with dark jeans when I go out to bars/clubs. This is most likely an orphaned suit jacket, and I was wondering if I am breaking any rules here by not wearing it with matching pants. After doing some quick googling, it looks like many think that it's a big no no to wear an orphaned suit jacket with jeans, but I figured I'd post a picture and ask anyway. Also, I don't plan on wearing it as formalwear either. Thanks!

 

[TJhambone09]

It all depends on your circumstances. If you are going to be at a club with a bunch of other SFers, someone will likely notice. If not, you'll be fine. I'd get some silver or brown horn buttons and swap them out though to make it clear you are turning this into a SC so there are no doubts. Being a 3 roll 2 helps as it brings down the formality level a touch.

 

[socrates]

It all depends on your circumstances. If you are going to be at a club with a bunch of other SFers, someone will likely notice. If not, you'll be fine. I'd get some silver or brown horn buttons and swap them out though to make it clear you are turning this into a SC so there are no doubts. Being a 3 roll 2 helps as it brings down the formality level a touch.

+1. While wearing orphans (especially with jeans) is not popular on this forum, it is popular with many style bloggers that appeal to a more youthful audience. Also make sure the jeans are not baggy.

 

[cbbuff]

It it had more casual features (color, natural shoulder, patch pockets, pattern, texture), I would agree that swapping the buttons would be enough. But this just looks like a suit jacket to me. Then again 99% of people will just say "nice suit" despite the fact that you are wearing jeans.....

 

[potatoch1p]

Thanks for the input guys. I already paid 150 and another 70 altering it. Is there any other use for this jacket if I can't wear it with jeans?

 

[GBR]

Orphaned suit coats are what they are - orphans and instantly identifiable as such. Burn it. Don't buy second hand from eBay, such garments are rarely bargains other than for starting a bonfire.

 

[socrates]

Orphaned suit coats are what they are - orphans and instantly identifiable as such. Burn it. Don't buy second hand from eBay, such garments are rarely bargains other than for starting a bonfire.

I am sure glad you are more knowledgeable than these two professionals. For those not familiar, the former is Ralf Lauren, and. the latter is a man who many consider one of the foremost experts on menswear, Allan Flusser. Your statement is your own style faux-pas and not a generally accepted one.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I am sure glad you are more knowledgeable than these two professionals. For those not familiar, the former is Ralf Lauren, and. the latter is a man who many consider one of the foremost experts on menswear, Allan Flusser. Your statement is your own style faux-pas and not a generally accepted one.

Flusser might write well on menswear, but he's also generally acknowledged as one of the most embarassingly bad dressers around on occasions. As for Ralph Lauren (who I assume you meant), he is not wearing his jacket with jeans (which is what the question was talking about), and he's clearly thought about the combination in the photo a bit more than it just being an orphan jacket he bought off ebay on the off-chance that it might be okay for 'the clubs' - whether it's actually an orphan or not I don't know. Besides, he's Ralph Lauren, he can do anything he likes and who's going to say anything to him?

What I'm unclear about here is why the OP spent so much to buy and alter an orphan, and why he's asking us after the event. For $220, he could have bought a really pretty good odd jacket 2nd hand, in the sales, or even new OTR. I recently got hold of a new unstructured Italian SC made by Lubiam for around that on ebay.

BTW, to the other members who said this was okay - no, a 3-roll-2 is not any less 'formal', not that this even matters. And it's got nothing to do with youth either. If you are going for that early Strokes look (which is hardly 'down with the kids' now anyway...), then choose a jacket that actually looks like it could be okay on it's own, perhaps something cut in a more vintage, particularly things in a mod / 60s style than doesn't look like a classic suit jacket anyway - I have a very sharply-cut midnight blue jacket with red lining that was made (as part of a suit) for my Dad, who was in an RnB band, in 1965, which I wear out to gigs occasionally with tapered jeans and a white T-shirt. A conventional grey suit jacket really isn't going to have the same effect.

 

[socrates]

Flusser might write well on menswear, but he's also generally acknowledged as one of the most embarassingly bad dressers around on occasions. As for Ralph Lauren (who I assume you meant), he is not wearing his jacket with jeans (which is what the question was talking about), and he's clearly thought about the combination in the photo a bit more than it just being an orphan jacket he bought off ebay on the off-chance that it might be okay for 'the clubs' - whether it's actually an orphan or not I don't know. Besides, he's Ralph Lauren, he can do anything he likes and who's going to say anything to him?

What I'm unclear about here is why the OP spent so much to buy and alter an orphan, and why he's asking us after the event. For $220, he could have bought a really pretty good odd jacket 2nd hand, in the sales, or even new OTR. I recently got hold of a new unstructured Italian SC made by Lubiam for around that on ebay.

BTW, to the other members who said this was okay - no, a 3-roll-2 is not any less 'formal', not that this even matters. And it's got nothing to do with youth either. If you are going for that early Strokes look (which is hardly 'down with the kids' now anyway...), then choose a jacket that actually looks like it could be okay on it's own, perhaps something cut in a more vintage, particularly things in a mod / 60s style than doesn't look like a classic suit jacket anyway - I have a very sharply-cut midnight blue jacket with red lining that was made (as part of a suit) for my Dad, who was in an RnB band, in 1965, which I wear out to gigs occasionally with tapered jeans and a white T-shirt. A conventional grey suit jacket really isn't going to have the same effect.

Sorry but I have to disagree with your contention that Allan Flusser is an expert on dressing everybody else but himself. As for Ralph Lauren (thanks for the correction) I saw this photo from best dressed list from a style blogger.

Combining formal with informal clothing is a style called high low. I was sitting at a cafe a couple of months ago and I noticed a couple of young people walk in wearing orphans with dark jeans. IMO they were better dressed than the other young people who were wearing jeans with t-shirts or sweat shirts. If they had worn an odd coat with trousers they would have been over dressed. (What is considered over dressed varies from region to region and country to country. Where I live it is considered over dressed.) By wearing the orphan with jeans the orphan made them look smart, while the jeans negated the formality.

Having said that these young people were sharply dressed, I will then go on to say that they were not properly dressed. Why? Because they had just walk in from a wedding that let out across the street. The purpose of high low style is to take the elegance of classic menswear and by combining it with informal wear like jeans, you can wear it in everyday situations. It is not meant as a substitute for formal wear.

The only rule I follow with orphans is to wear them with pants that are similarly tailored as suit pants. This way I maintain the silhouette of the original suit. Wearing a baggy bottom with a tailored top (or vice versa), does not look good. As to wearing a three two role and if it looks good on its own, I do not know. For me I try things on, and if it looks good I wear it. No matter what I have tried I cannot get pin striped jackets to look good, so I do not wear them. But I also know that no matter what I wear, when I walk out the door, there will always be people who will not approve what I wear. When I wear a full suit, it makes me feel elegant and a gentleman. Other people see a suit and they associate it with corporatism and greedy bankers. I once wore a preppy looking sweater and my friends got on my case and told me it made me look "stuffy",. That is why my general philosophy is I wear what I like in social situations, (not business) and do not give a dam what other people think.

What I do not understand is why other people on this forum give a dam to what I wear, and become so emotional. I am not talking about you, FlyingMonkey. Your answer was very polite and gentlemanly. I am talking about other members, who I will not name. For me the purpose of this forum is that when the OPs ask for advise, we can all give them our opinions. Then it is up to OP to chose what advise to take and which to ignore.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

...

Sorry but I have to disagree with your contention that Allan Flusser is an expert on dressing everybody else but himself.  As for Ralph Lauren (thanks for the correction) I saw this photo from best dressed list from a style blogger. 


Combining formal with informal clothing is a style  called high low.  I was sitting at a cafe a couple of months ago and I noticed a couple of young people walk in wearing orphans with dark jeans.  IMO they were better dressed than the other young people who were wearing jeans with t-shirts or sweat shirts.  If they had worn an odd coat with trousers they would have been over dressed. (What is considered over dressed varies from region to region and country to country.   Where I live it is considered over dressed.)  By wearing the orphan with jeans the orphan made them look smart, while the jeans negated the formality.

Having said that these young people were sharply dressed, I will then go on to say that they were not properly dressed.  Why?  Because they had just walk in from a wedding that let out across the street.  The purpose  of high low style is to take the elegance of classic menswear and by combining it with informal wear like jeans, you can wear it in everyday situations.  It is not meant as a substitute for formal wear. 

The only rule I follow with orphans is to wear them with pants that are similarly tailored as suit pants.  This way I maintain the silhouette of the original suit.  Wearing a baggy bottom with a tailored top (or vice versa),  does not look good.  As to wearing a three two role and if it looks good on its own, I do not know.  For me I try things on, and if it looks good I wear it.  No matter what I have tried I cannot get pin striped jackets to look good, so I do not wear them.  But I also know that no matter what I wear, when I walk out the door, there will always be people who will not approve what I wear.  When I wear a full suit, it makes me feel elegant and a gentleman.  Other people see a suit and they associate it with corporatism and greedy bankers.  I once wore a preppy looking sweater and my friends got on my case and told me it made me look "stuffy",.  That is why my general philosophy is I wear what I like in social situations, (not business) and do not give a dam what other people think. 

What I do not understand is why other people on this forum give a dam to what I wear, and become so emotional.  I am not talking about you, FlyingMonkey.  Your answer was very polite and gentlemanly.  I am talking about other members, who I will not name.  For me the purpose of this forum is that when the OPs ask for advise, we can all give them our opinions.  Then it is up to OP to chose what advise to take and which to ignore.
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Very well said.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Very well said.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

Sorry but I have to disagree with your contention that Allan Flusser is an expert on dressing everybody else but himself. As for Ralph Lauren (thanks for the correction) I saw this photo from best dressed list from a style blogger.

Combining formal with informal clothing is a style called high low. I was sitting at a cafe a couple of months ago and I noticed a couple of young people walk in wearing orphans with dark jeans. IMO they were better dressed than the other young people who were wearing jeans with t-shirts or sweat shirts. If they had worn an odd coat with trousers they would have been over dressed. (What is considered over dressed varies from region to region and country to country. Where I live it is considered over dressed.) By wearing the orphan with jeans the orphan made them look smart, while the jeans negated the formality.

Having said that these young people were sharply dressed, I will then go on to say that they were not properly dressed. Why? Because they had just walk in from a wedding that let out across the street. The purpose of high low style is to take the elegance of classic menswear and by combining it with informal wear like jeans, you can wear it in everyday situations. It is not meant as a substitute for formal wear.

The only rule I follow with orphans is to wear them with pants that are similarly tailored as suit pants. This way I maintain the silhouette of the original suit. Wearing a baggy bottom with a tailored top (or vice versa), does not look good. As to wearing a three two role and if it looks good on its own, I do not know. For me I try things on, and if it looks good I wear it. No matter what I have tried I cannot get pin striped jackets to look good, so I do not wear them. But I also know that no matter what I wear, when I walk out the door, there will always be people who will not approve what I wear. When I wear a full suit, it makes me feel elegant and a gentleman. Other people see a suit and they associate it with corporatism and greedy bankers. I once wore a preppy looking sweater and my friends got on my case and told me it made me look "stuffy",. That is why my general philosophy is I wear what I like in social situations, (not business) and do not give a dam what other people think.

What I do not understand is why other people on this forum give a dam to what I wear, and become so emotional. I am not talking about you, FlyingMonkey. Your answer was very polite and gentlemanly. I am talking about other members, who I will not name. For me the purpose of this forum is that when the OPs ask for advise, we can all give them our opinions. Then it is up to OP to chose what advise to take and which to ignore.

I agree with some of what you say here, but I think you are mixing up two very different issues and applying some thinking to the OP's question that is some way beyond what he was asking.

1. I recognise the difference between what you call 'sharp' and 'properly' dressed - it is what I was talking about too. The 'sharp' kind relies on contrasting the cut of a suit jacket with the informality of denim. This is not 'proper' but in the right context, it's fine. As I said, I do it. This is what the OP was asking about and whether this particular orphan would work with jeans. In my opinion, no. I gave details as to what might work. In other non-club contexts, rougher fabrics and features that have less suit-like characteristics (patch pockets etc.) would work with jeans too - see some of @EFV 's recent fits. But that isn't what's going on here.

2. What is also not going on here is the other issue you have now brought up which is mixing tailored clothing. This is a whole different thing. Suits often used to be made to be mixed, especially in the various Italian tailoring traditions, where this is still common, and this is creeping back in elsewhere with the return of what people are often calling the 'blazer suit' (as @Claghorn has been wearing here frequently) There was also a really good example of a more British-tailored 'Riviera' combination double-three-piece (2 three piece suits of exactly the same style and cut but one in ivory and one in tobacco) shown by
@Butler here not too long ago, which could be mixed in various different combinations. This is all true and I strongly support the intelligence combination of mixed tailored pieces, but that's several levels above what the OP is talking about and doesn't really help him here!

BTW, final point - it isn't really evidence in support of any position to say that a 'style blogger' thinks something is great. Style bloggers are legion, and most of them are terrible. Very few are actually worth paying attention to and quite a few of them are or have been members here...

 

[Claghorn]

A good example from EFV. Rougher jacket, suede chukkas which straddle the casual/business divide, and well cut jeans. I rarely, if ever see that when I spot a jacket + jeans. Generally it's worsted, solid or striped. Shoe's vary, (though in Korea, where it's done, well, better, which isn't to say good, they're often the right type--neither fish nor fowl, much like the outfit).

BTW, final point - it isn't really evidence in support of any position to say that a 'style blogger' thinks something is great. Style bloggers are legion, and most of them are terrible. Very few are actually worth paying attention to and quite a few of them are or have been members here...

Christ yes this is true. Bloggers don't have to deal with people who disagree with them, and with little need to justify their tastes, they tend to get lost in a self-reinforcing loop. Which is not to say there isn't some self-reinforcement going on at SF, but it is at least somewhat mitigated (and the explanations/rationalizations are of a higher order by necessity).

This is not to say there aren't some very intelligent bloggers with justifiable taste, but I'll generally take the word of someone who survives trial by fire (especially if it confirms what I already believe

).

 

[PdxTony43]

very interesting where this conversation started and is heading. It seems to me that style and dress when you start breaking the rules is a lot like breaking the rules in any other specialized field involving art. Musicians break the rules all the time, but they know what the rules are in the first place and do so intentionally. I disliked jazz for a long time until I started to learn the rules of music and the intention of jazz. In writing Shakespeare , broke rules all the time but I assure you he knew the rules as well. Visual artists, which fashion is clearly a part of, break rules as well. It is this very contrast of the social and visually expected article of clothing with the unexpected items that draws our attention , admiration and ire.
That doesn't mean that following the rules well is wrong, it is in fact, very difficult but breaking them without making a mess of things is difficult to do. People who are willing to challenge our expectations should be admired, at least for expanding our horizons and challenging our own definition of fashion rules.
I leave you with a few quotes by the great Coco Chanel
"The most courageous act is still to think for yourself. Aloud."
“You live but once; you might as well be amusing.”

“Success is most often achieved by those who don’t know that failure is inevitable.”

This guy is obviously dressed well but broke there rules, and knowing which rules to break is a great lesson.

 

[SartodiNapoli]

Ralph Lauren has very nice third parties working for his labels as some friends doing their best ties, Edward Green for shoes, Corneliani or Caruso for suits but honestly I have never seen him dressed properly, he is like the american Armani, both dress poor!!!