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No effs given... correctly

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Cantabrigian, May 24, 2013.

  1. YRR92

    YRR92 Well-Known Member

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    Or the pirate's code?

    Although I do think it's possible to dress objectively well and objectively badly within the context of this thing of ours, I'm often reminded of a line from Hamlet. "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

    It's entirely possible for something to look good and be outside of the "rules." Heck, you could wear a bunch of, like, Rick Owens or something, and not look bad. I think [​IMG] has a point -- the more you know about clothes, the more effectively you can dress.
     
  2. Numbernine

    Numbernine Well-Known Member

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    Sure .
    Take something simple like a sc sleeve length . We all know the rules . I have a couple of jackets I wear over Tee shirts on cool summer mornings( I live in northern california . We have those )What do I care if they are a bit long . Without a shirt cuff to compare it is pretty much meaningless because the whole reason for the sleeve length to begin with is to provide that nice 1/2"(balance&symmetry-objectively pleasing to the human sense of order) of color and texture( which if done correctly is objectively directed to the sense of visual pleasure )
     
  3. bertie

    bertie Well-Known Member

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    So are we left with "no effs given" done well being someone who knows the MC rules but picks which ones to ignore based on context? A sartorial sociopath?
     
  4. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    per usual, we are left with nothing. :(
     
  5. bertie

    bertie Well-Known Member

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    I take a slightly different view - a more optimistic view. I actually quite like the idea of the sartorial sociopath. It allows for the deviations from MC conventions when the situation demands.


    • That New Year's party where the tux is too much but the midnight blue suit and (horror) navy shirt with a slight sheen seems just the ticket.
    • The after work cocktail party where the end-on-end light blue dress shirt and grenadine tie are ditched for a gingham button down under the grey suit.
    • The sunday brunch where a turtleneck is worn under a tweed jacket.

    All would do time in SF prison or be viewed as "fails" in "good taste" yet would be viewed as stylish by the ignorant masses and maybe even a few La Résistance forumites who reject totalitarianism.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  6. Numbernine

    Numbernine Well-Known Member

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    Im certainly a noob here and Im sure Ive worn out my welcome already so ill put my foot in my mouth one more time to say imo no effs given correctly is when someone uses the rules both in application and ignorance to create something that could not exist otherwise and which can be found to be pleasing both objectively and subjectively . While I am certain that the same process can be used , and is in the case of art , to elicit emotions other than pleasure I personally have no interest in that , as I am sure is the case of those interested in MC in general . SW&D I find to be another case altogether
     
  7. bertie

    bertie Well-Known Member

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    Sadly experience on the forum is not always a pre-requisite for useful contribution so fear not. Let me think more about this idea that eliciting an emotional response may be some element in not givings efts. Does that make conventional MC the opposite - the unemotional and rational?
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2013
  8. Numbernine

    Numbernine Well-Known Member

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    Okay I gotta get to bed but Ill do one more round . Imo the not givin a fuck only becomes of significance when it is an
    essential element in the "look" unlike sprezz which is a sideshow dont give a fuck . And yes in the case of MC I would say the emotional target is generally visual pleasure and the method used to achive it rational ,particularly when compared to SW&D
     
  9. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Even allowing this point, what of people who aren't trying to use their clothing to look good? It is not the only reason to choose to wear one thing over another.

    To me "good" and "bad", and the various convex hulls of that set in the form of rating system, are useless, especially once we start moving outside the context of classic menswear and into "no effs given" and these various other more arcane dialects. I'd rather talk about what effect someone is trying to produce, and if that's successful. Almost like costume designing. Does the costume look right for the character portrayed?
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Well-Known Member

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    I was wondering if cultural upbringing pkays a part in developing a good sense of this kind of dress sense. Like are some cultures just better at doing it than others. Is there a reason the French dont give into this kind of dressing the way some Italians and Brits do? Also beyond western cultures are there some cultures who have developed their own aesthetics out of ignorance of the rules but yet it somehow works?
     
  11. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    So, in order to get this thread back on topic: is this outfit no effs given, and if so, does it work (and why)?
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  12. Holdfast

    Holdfast Well-Known Member

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    It's a very good outfit of course but I'm not convinced that I'd place it entirely within the parameters of this thread. The scorpion is such a calculated & strong central focus that everything else is used as a blank canvas. This is needed to make the look work, but I think moves it almost into advertising the tie specifically. It's not a combined/blended look, containing a range of items not commonly found together, which is closer to what I tend to intuitively place more within the concepts being discussed in this thread. I wouldn't look at that outfit and think, "wow, awesome & unexpected combination"; I look at it and think, "very cool dude; great way to use that tie". That's a bit different, to me.
     
  13. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the outfit as a whole is not really no effs given. Would you consider your own recent outfit (with the magnificent tie) a no effss given outfit?
     
  14. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    the french are too busy eating bread drinking wine having sex losing wars, to worry about such things.
     
  15. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, when I was in Paris I thought the French dressed far better, on average, than most Europeans. Kinda like how New Yorkers generally dress better than the rest of America (with certain big exceptions, of course).
     
  16. in stitches

    in stitches Well-Known Member

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    they may dress well, i have no clue, lol. Tril seemed to say they dont care much about it they way others do, i was offering a guess as to why. :)
     
  17. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Well-Known Member

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    I know it must be difficult for some to accept, but this really does come easily to some people. They aren't grounded in knowledge of rules, historical context, blah blah fucking blah. They just pick out interesting clothes and combine them in an interesting way. So many here seem to believe that because they had to expend a lot of time and effort to arrive at their style, it's impossible for someone else to get to the same place (or beyond) with little to no effort.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Caustic Man

    Caustic Man Well-Known Member

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    I dunno, Tir may have some insight to their behavior that I do not. Or maybe they just like to SEEM like they don't care lol.
     
  19. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Well-Known Member

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    Styleforum: videri quam esse?
     
  20. Sonny58

    Sonny58 Well-Known Member

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    For me, the above-bolded comment is key. The point in one's sartorial journey at which they feel "liberated" comes earlier for some than others and this can be a good thing or a bad.


    This is very true.
     

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