Max Muscle Minimum time?

[Prada_Ferragamo]

Originally Posted by bobdobalina

Thanks for the measured response.
1. I'm 34, and probably a bit below 20%-- no access to fancy measurement equipment.
2. I've been lifting 2x/week pretty regularly for about 3 years (with a few intermissions). Workouts are not fancy--largely some combination of squat/bench/dead/military/chins/dips/pullups.
3. I'm at or just short of intermediate level on all exercises here.
4. In terms of quality, my diet isn't bad to begin with (Well, maybe it is-- it's just a softcore paleo diet with decent compliance outside of 2 cans of Coke per week) but I should probably be eating less.

So I guess my questions, which I asked rather sloppily, are:
1. What's the fat-loss-lean-mass-retention sweet spot? Is it really less than 2 lb/mo?
2. Will lifting weights 4x/week get me where I want to go faster?


Eating less is not the solution. Eat smaller portions but more times/day will keep your metabolism high. Each meal has to have certain number of proteins, carbs, and fats. Eliminate carbs and fats will devastate your body. Since your brain can only use anaerobic glycolysis for energy and testosterone is a cholesterol derivative.
Figure your body out first before saying "I am going to lift x times/week". Your body needs to recovery which is as essential as working out. Never work on the same muscle groups consecutively, and core strength is important.

 

[bawlin]

I've also had great success on this diet: http://www.skippypodar.net/Fitness/carbcycling.html

But yes, figure out your body first. I've been lifting for two years, but I could never REALLY get into the flow of things because something I was doing was wrong (either my routine or diet), but I switched to the carb cycliing diet above about 8 weeks ago and I've made more progress in the past couple of months than I have the past couple of years combined.

Lifting weight and body recomposition is a journey. For some of us like myself with a crappy metabolism, it can be tedious and draining, but don't give up, EVER. There's no better feeling than being the most fit guy in the room, at the beach, etc.

Here's some motivation, if you're lacking: http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...est_atomic_dog

 

[JoeWoah]

Originally Posted by bobdobalina

Thanks for the measured response. 1. I'm 34, and probably a bit below 20%-- no access to fancy measurement equipment. 2. I've been lifting 2x/week pretty regularly for about 3 years (with a few intermissions). Workouts are not fancy--largely some combination of squat/bench/dead/military/chins/dips/pullups. 3. I'm at or just short of intermediate level on all exercises here. 4. In terms of quality, my diet isn't bad to begin with (Well, maybe it is-- it's just a softcore paleo diet with decent compliance outside of 2 cans of Coke per week) but I should probably be eating less. So I guess my questions, which I asked rather sloppily, are: 1. What's the fat-loss-lean-mass-retention sweet spot? Is it really less than 2 lb/mo? 2. Will lifting weights 4x/week get me where I want to go faster?
I'd guess you're probably under 20% based on your diet and fitness level. You don't seem to be starting from a bad position. You don't need fancy equipment to test, calipers are under $20. Here is an article from CNN on the pros and cons of the methods available: http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/02...fat/index.html They also sell scales in the $50-$100 range that measure your body fat too, but I don't know how accurate they are. Anyone have any experience with them? I also don't think you need to lift weights 4x per week. I think 3x is more than enough. What you do need to add/increase is cardio. You need to cut so you need cardio. Your lifting should be intense and not just going through the motions... so lift at a cardio rate, always moving, very short rests. Think about a 3:1 ratio between work and rest (average lift time is 30 seconds so 1:30min rest). You can try a 2:1, but 3:1 is more realistic. You should also be done in 45 minutes, with your workout, including abs/cardio (if you do it on a lifting day). If you're not done by then, put down whatever you're doing and end it. P90X has some really hardcore cardio programs if you're crunched for time. They hurt me for days and you can do it from home! As you know, I also favor rowing and elliptical machines/interval training. Keep your lifting routine basic and not a routine at all. I try to do a different workout every time. Right now I'm doing full-body 3x a week and cardio 2x (sometimes 3x) per week for a total of 5x per week. In a few weeks I change to a 2 muscle group workout that is TBD right now. The first lifting/diet program I used was from AST and it's one of my favorites. http://www.ast-ss.com/maxot.php As for goal setting, I don't like using numbers. Instead, take before and after pictures all the way through. Set one day at the end of every week to take a few. It's far more satisfying. At the end of the day, we're not doing this to have an awesome number, but to look awesome. Your diet seems okay, from the little I know of it. But you need to eat more - like 6x per day, in small portions. You need carbs the most before and after a workout, otherwise try to keep starches to a minimum. If you're doing this over the long-term, like a year, then you don't need to be super-strict. Make sure you have a cheat/rest day every week and also make sure you earned your cheat day. You also need rest. Per the AST program and something I've always stuck with since, take a week off from working out every 8 weeks. When you come out of that rest, go back to the gym with a whole different workout program to try.

 

[blackrover]

I have been at it for 2 1/2 months and my metabolism has finally kicked into full gear. I'm currently losing about a 1-1.5lbs a day. My weights are going up and people are telling me I look more massive

, but it has taken time even with using TREN (prohormones). If you want to see change you have to fight the FATBOY in ya and get to the gym at least three times a week, also eat 6 small meals a day. I eat 3 solid and 3 liquid protein, and I also don't do cheater days (maybe once I achieve my goals). Gaining muscle and losing fat is hard to do at the same time although not impossible. You have to supplement and diet properly or you're just spinning your wheels. PS her's my inspiration thread http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=108359701

 

[Ludeykrus]

I'm wondering if this could work as one's full core workout regime....

Originally Posted by robertorex

yeah the bear workout isn't something you should do unless your clean, back squat, and front squat technique is spot on. Otherwise you're just asking for trouble. You do indeed have to start with real light weight - like I said, a measly 85 lbs (on the final round too!) destroyed me. It's an amazing workout though for hitting nearly every muscle in your body, as well as your conditioning.

Originally Posted by robertorex

tried barbell complexes today and they humbled me. Could be good for OP's purpose.

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Started first round with 65, ended last round with 85. Just barely got out alive. My conditioning has a ways to go...

 

[robertorex]

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

I'm wondering if this could work as one's full core workout regime....

yeah that's my plan when I go home and have to deal with the dearth of plates in my condo gym.

 

[turbozed]

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

I'm wondering if this could work as one's full core workout regime....

It might but it wouldn't be effective as other exercises. *Heavy* squats, deadlifts, cleans, presses will also work your core to a significant degree. However, to do the bear you'll have the lower the weight by a considerable amount. The exercise is great for working out the whole body and helps with whole body muscle stamina, but there's better exercises to strengthen the core along all axes.

If you want core stability and abdominal extension, do overhead squats. One of the most difficult exercises out there.

For ab flexion, do weighted decline situps with controlled cadence.

For lateral strength, nothing works better than saxon side bends.

 

[KBW]

I've been stacking clen and t3 for two weeks and have 2 days before I take some time off and it has worked wonders. You have to be careful with the t3 though as it can mess you up if you don't cycle it correctly. I'm not one to care about percentages and what not I look in the mirror and I'm not sure what I lost but I'm noticeably a good bit leaner in just two weeks. My fiancee is upset with me as she knows I'm taking something but it is worth it to me. I don't know whether it is or is not illegal but it is relatively easy to get the clen and t3.

 

[bawlin]

I always wanted to go on clen, but I've had too much success with EC stacked with green tea, that I don't even think it's worth my while to take something like that. Not to mention I have overly active sweat glands as it is, and I'm basically drenched when I take EC (thank god I'm unemployed right now so I can take the stack and just sit out home sweating ****** off) so clen would probably destroy me.

But we'll see how far the stack takes me. At the moment, I don't do any cardio (my workouts are too intense and I'm usually gassed at the end to do any) but I've given myself a month to cut another 5lbs of fat so we'll see. I've always carried a lot more fat than the average person, and I have a stubborn metabolism, so maybe clen might be my only choice to get to around 10% bf.

 

[Mr. Caber]

Originally Posted by KBW

I don't know whether it is or is not illegal but it is relatively easy to get the clen and t3.

Wow. I mean... wow.

 

[bobdobalina]

Originally Posted by Prada_Ferragamo

Eating less is not the solution. Eat smaller portions but more times/day will keep your metabolism high.

Is there any evidence for this in anything remotely resembling a peer-reviewed journal?

 

[robertorex]

Originally Posted by Ludeykrus

I'm wondering if this could work as one's full core workout regime....

Second time doing the bear, went 65-70-75-80-85 again, but this time felt much better and in control, I think I'm getting used to the exercise. Might be able to bump it up the next time I give it a go. I notice it's not the most effective core workout, but it is a killer on the legs, and by the last set your arms are really feeling it too. Pretty much a catch-all full body loaded cardio if you can't do anything better. A+, would do again.

 

[Ludeykrus]

I should have clarified; I meant if one increased the weight and reduced the amount of sets/repetitions. This still would not work adequately for one building muscle, since I would guess that the upper muscles would wear out much faster than the lower muscles.

It does appear to be a good bridge exercise between body building and 'toning'/cardio/stamina/BS.

 

[bawlin]

Originally Posted by robertorex

Second time doing the bear, went 65-70-75-80-85 again, but this time felt much better and in control, I think I'm getting used to the exercise. Might be able to bump it up the next time I give it a go. I notice it's not the most effective core workout, but it is a killer on the legs, and by the last set your arms are really feeling it too. Pretty much a catch-all full body loaded cardio if you can't do anything better. A+, would do again.

How long do you wait between sets? I'm going to give this a try this weekend.

7 reps, right?

 

[robertorex]

5 "sets", 7 "reps" - one "rep" is the whole cycle - clean, front squat, push press, back squat, push press. The squats can be combined into the push press to make a thruster, but you can't go from the clean directly into the front squat. got to fully extend hips when you finish the clean, then squat distinctly.

your load scheme can vary. more popular versions of the bear involve increasing load every round by an increment to work up to a max load at the end (what I do), of course you could also just keep the load constant every set if you want. up to you.

I rest 2 minutes between each set, I thought I could do it faster but it actually poops me pretty quickly, like I said, I have to do this more before my conditioning's up to speed.