Law school and the legal sphere (in North America)

[kasper007]



Not really true. The law school you go to can open a lot of doors. Certain employers only interview at certain schools. Many employers will not even consider a resume if it doesn't come from one of their designated schools. So it is much better to graduate in the middle of your Yale law school class than at the top of your Podunk Tech law school class.

We are all in agreement that going to Yale is superior to Podunk, the point here was within T14 schools (ie. outside of H/S/Y, it's better to graduate top 5-10% of your class from a mid or bottom tier T14 than middle / bottom of your class at a top tier). From my own limited experience, I would say this is true and class ranking matters way more than school ranking within T14.

 

[Bounder]

Not really true. The law school you go to can open a lot of doors. Certain employers only interview at certain schools. Many employers will not even consider a resume if it doesn't come from one of their designated schools. So it is much better to graduate in the middle of your Yale law school class than at the top of your Podunk Tech law school class.

We are all in agreement that going to Yale is superior to Podunk, the point here was within T14 schools (ie. outside of H/S/Y, it's better to graduate top 5-10% of your class from a mid or bottom tier T14 than middle / bottom of your class at a top tier). From my own limited experience, I would say this is true and class ranking matters way more than school ranking within T14.

For a while, it was hard to miss studying law. People would even go to law school when the job market wasn't so great on the theory that it would be better in three years and they would have a valuable law degree. In the current market, this just isn't true. Unless he's got a specific reason to go to particular school that has a particular program, he's better off saving the money and going to school in Toronto if he can't get into a very prestigious school. I'm not even sure some place like Columbia is worth it if he can go somewhere else for half price.

If he really wants to practice in the U.S., after he graduates, he can get an LL.M -- which typically takes a year -- from some law school in New York State. That will allow him to take the NY bar and practice in the U.S.. He'll end up dual-qualified and with a useful specialty degree at a fraction of the cost of going directly to a U.S. law school. Plus, as it's usually a lot easier to get into an LL.M program, he would have a decent shot at getting into Cornell, NYU or Columbia, for whatever that's worth these days. At least he'd have access to their on-campus recruiting.

 

[Harold falcon]

If you want to be a worthless solicitor, then sure.

 

[brokencycle]



Not really true. The law school you go to can open a lot of doors. Certain employers only interview at certain schools. Many employers will not even consider a resume if it doesn't come from one of their designated schools. So it is much better to graduate in the middle of your Yale law school class than at the top of your Podunk Tech law school class.

If you can get in to, say, Harvard, Yale or Stanford, you should go for it. The cache -- and the people you meet -- will stick with you for the rest of your life. Half of Bill Clinton's appointments were friends of his from law school. But something less prestigious than that, I might think hard about, especially if it's going to cost you an extra 100K.

But you had better hurry. I think you've already missed some U.S. deadlines.

This is reductio ad absurdum. No one is arguing that. People getting accepted into Yale and Stanford aren't considering Podunk U. What I was saying is things like comparing across T14 schools, or even strong regional schools, class rank matters more.

 

[Harold falcon]

I went to Podunk U undergrad. Then I thought I was getting into a Tier 1 law school, which by my last year was bought out by Kid Toucher U and is now a laughingstock. Thanks, Obama.

 

[goldenbear]

I just want to do interesting work and make money, man. Corporate law seems to be where it's at — I've worked with closely with both external and in-house counsel and had the opportunity to watch them do transactional work, and it seemed like really dynamic work that delivers new challenges every day. That's pretty much my idea of fun.

You're obviously very bright. What makes you think you need to be a lawyer? Why not pursue the area of business that most interests you? My roommate was from Toronto and a graduate of York University. He finished at the top of his class and was easily hired at Jenner & Block. If you can do that, won't need prior connections. You'll make your own connections through your summer associate program and the law review. If you are not near the top of your class at anything but an elite school, God help you. Regardless of the poor market big firms are still hiring and law grads are still getting good jobs. There are just way, wayyyyyy too many who aren't; or are working for peanuts with massive debt and no light at the end of the tunnel. The investment is just too large and the opportunities far too few.

My advice to you, assuming your representation of yourself is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt that it is). Apply to many schools in the 70 or so in markets that appeal to you. Find a school that will offer you a FULL RIDE. Don't worry that it isn't the best school you got into, this doesn't matter that much. Don't consider paying even 50% tuition! The competition for spots in the top 10% and law review will be softer outside the T14. You will be at an advantage over your classmates. You can always drop out after your first semester if it isn't working out for you, and your losses won't be that great. I strongly suggest you consider the advice I have given you.

 

[Harold falcon]

Goldenbear is not exactly wrong.

 

[UnFacconable]

I enjoy my work but I would never recommend someone go to law school or pursue the legal profession. I'm very close to leaving my firm to go in-house and have had some great opportunities and experiences over the course of my career, but even so I don't think I would have chosen this path if I had to do it all over again.

If you do go to law school I would suggest you do whatever it takes to get to the top of the class, unless you are at a top 5 or 10 law school.

Maybe I should start an in-house lawyer thread. There must be some of those around here and would be interesting to hear what people have to say about it compared to big firm life.

 

[brokencycle]



I enjoy my work but I would never recommend someone go to law school or pursue the legal profession. I'm very close to leaving my firm to go in-house and have had some great opportunities and experiences over the course of my career, but even so I don't think I would have chosen this path if I had to do it all over again.

If you do go to law school I would suggest you do whatever it takes to get to the top of the class, unless you are at a top 5 or 10 law school.

Maybe I should start an in-house lawyer thread. There must be some of those around here and would be interesting to hear what people have to say about it compared to big firm life.

From my limited experience, I think it varies, but the in-house counsel tends to be more corporate like (hours, demands, etc). It seems large firms tend to have far greater variability in work environment than corporate counsels.

 

[UnFacconable]

Yes I think that's generally the case. I think my workload will be more consistent and I can leave biz dev behind. I'm more interested in the pitfalls of making the transition successfully. I'm going into a relatively familiar situation as the GC of a long-time client so I'm more interested in the nuance of successfully making the transition as a senior lawyer who has only been at large law firms.

 

[Huntsman]

The hours in-house are still bad, but since you don't bill, no one knows.

~ H

 

[Bounder]



Yes I think that's generally the case. I think my workload will be more consistent and I can leave biz dev behind. I'm more interested in the pitfalls of making the transition successfully. I'm going into a relatively familiar situation as the GC of a long-time client so I'm more interested in the nuance of successfully making the transition as a senior lawyer who has only been at large law firms.

One difference is that, when you are representing a client at a firm, you are often trying to get them out of trouble. When you are the in-house GC, you are more often trying to keep them out of trouble.

 

[jamiemcp]

So you don't want to be a lawyer, you want to be an accountant.

This, if I had my time again I would have trained to be an accountant. Offers a very varied career

 

[Spaghettimatt]

Gonna bump this and poll some opinions. I'm debating going to HYS or Toronto or not at all. Have a few days to decide. Do you guys think going to HYS (est COA 150k) is worth it or is it still a poor investment?

No interest in corp transactional. Maybe lit, maybe PI, maybe fed.

 

[Harold falcon]

edit - lol, you're "debating." I will give you a thousand dollar scholarship if you get accepted to HYS.