Jean Question

[usctrojan99]

Fair enough...maybe I got lucky with my 575s. I only have one pair and I rank them with the pair of Nudies, PBJ, and Neighborhood I have.

 

[chronoaug]

Hold on. Since when does barneys carry Samurai. I'm calling total bullshit until i see actual proof as this makes zero sense. Why would they carry a small japanese brand that pretty much only forum members wear? Let's just pretend usctrojan and this thread didn't happen. We have one of these a month and they're never very productive. Sorority/frat wear vs. fashion/*** brands rarely ends with the person saying "you're right, this stuff is overpriced for how generic it is" and it's not like anyone in this forum is actually worried.

 

[DGP]

Based on your OP, I'd try the Rag & Bone RB6a, in the lighter weight denim. They are sort of light weight, softer, and are some of the dressiest denim I've seen.

 

[PG2G]

Barney's definitely doesn't sell Samurai.

 

[drizzt3117]

The thing is, you can go to Nordstrom Rack and find 575, AG, TR, 7FAM, and COH, along with Sacred Blue, Mavi, Chip and Pepper, and the like. You're not going to find Nudie, and you certainly won't find Samurai.

I own about forty pairs of denim (mostly raw) in about 25 different brands from a variety of different countries. I don't find any given genre of denim overrepresented, I simply buy what I like. I own a pair of 575 jeans (M3, Midnight) that I bought from Nordstrom Rack at Metro Pointe on 40% additional clearance for $50. It's not bad for what it is, a lightly distressed cotton/lycra jean that is like my 7FAM Stretch Bootcuts but not quite as good a fit and isn't distressed as naturally. The fabric, at least to my hand, feels a bit lighter and softer, which is nice for comfort but probably not for longevity. Is it in the same class as my S7000VX? No, but then again, I didn't pay anywhere near as much for them. Would I be a satisified buyer at $241? Definitely not. That said, I think it's a decent pair of jeans, but probably won't be given a second glance by the average poster here, not because they are crappy, but because they

1) aren't of the aesthetic most people here like,

2) quality to price ratio at retail is horrendous.

3) aren't very durable because of their soft nature.

I would reference DGP's recent post about 5EP. Trying those jeans will change your worldview on denim.

 

[whodini]

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

That's a shame..i guess your credibility is lost to me as well

Again, drizzt and I are not the only ones on this forum who feel this way. This isn't honestforum. Scroll through WAYWT and see how many people wear 575's here. Do a search and see how many on here rave about their fit and wash. I'm willing to bet that their fits can be achieved through a plethora of other companies on here that are well supported and regarded. I'll leave the pre-distressing factor on its own: some people are fine with it, others graduate away from it. What I think people will criticize most is quality for the price-point and really, that's where 575, et. al. get grouped together and chastized. That guy who says his Japanese repro's are made better and hold a better value than mall-jeans isn't ridiculous in this respect: typically the materials and construction match the price paid. If you feel differently, please argue. Cuts are a completely different demon and I'd be hard-pressed to think that 575 is holding some secret that countless Japanese or American brands of similar category (5EP, KMW, etc.) with countless cuts and fits don't have.

 

[Coulomb]

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

Barneys sells Nudie and Samurai jeans.

Barneys doesn't carry Samurai...

While 575 isn't the exact same as TR, AG, 7FAM, and etc, their target audience and market is. That is why the brand is so proliferate and sold along side those mentioned brands. Since those brands share the same audience/market, they are designed with similar details/specifications in mind to attract those customers. As a result, you will see very similar categories of cuts and washes. Granted the exact cuts will vary from brand to brand; it's safe to say that you'll find their most available styles to be what their contemporaries offer.

So the point I think Drizzt was trying to make is that 575 caters to the same market as those jeans (TR etc...) thus it is easy to infer that it is bound to have similarities. From that relationship, it would be logical, if one had to categorize, to place them in the same general bin (i.e. premium label/designer denim). Now unfortunately that bin has been stigmatized because it is rife with overpriced, low quality denim. With that said, there's a certain look and aesthetic that these denims accomplish that the much loved Japanese brands here don't. So if your main object isn't the denim or construction, then brands like 575/TR/AG are fine.

 

[sbbbjm]

i think nudie gets sold along with the mall brands bc its branding is similar to the mall brands.

if you notice acne, cheap monday, rag & bone, crate - when they are sold in their regular priced time of the season - are presented with the mall brands.

nudie seems to be a hybrid of both in terms of marketing . . .

 

[usctrojan99]

Originally Posted by whodini

Again, drizzt and I are not the only ones on this forum who feel this way. This isn't honestforum. Scroll through WAYWT and see how many people wear 575's here. Do a search and see how many on here rave about their fit and wash. I'm willing to bet that their fits can be achieved through a plethora of other companies on here that are well supported and regarded. I'll leave the pre-distressing factor on its own: some people are fine with it, others graduate away from it. What I think people will criticize most is quality for the price-point and really, that's where 575, et. al. get grouped together and chastized.

That guy who says his Japanese repro's are made better and hold a better value than mall-jeans isn't ridiculous in this respect: typically the materials and construction match the price paid. If you feel differently, please argue.

Cuts are a completely different demon and I'd be hard-pressed to think that 575 is holding some secret that countless Japanese or American brands of similar category (5EP, KMW, etc.) with countless cuts and fits don't have.


whodini..i was joking about the credibility. hopefully you didn't take it seriously. I enjoy these forums because people can express their opinions and not everyone will agree. I'd like to see a forum where everyone has different opinions.

I would argue that japanese denim is not superior quality across the board. I had a pair of Samurais (bought from BIGSoho) and they were pretty decent. I had given them to my brother after several months. But, given the price, I didn't think it was much better than $85 575's I bought at Off Saks. Again, I am simply comparing one size and cut to another. Others may vary.

I think labor and the materials in Japan may be more intensive than something made in the states. But, I thnk there is a perception from people that Japanese denim is more credible than anything else. I think people thinking that way are lame. My opinion. At the end of the day, we're talking about clothing. Clothing, and fashion, provide us with a sense of confidence and syle. Some may argue clothing provides them with self-worth and credibility ( I don't agree with).

I've worn several brands in the past 5 years (Dior Homme, D&G, NBHD, Samurai, Nudie, Dsquared, 575, TR, Stitch's, RR, PBJ, Levi's). Some made in Japan, Italy and the US. My girlfriend scoured the country and surprised me with NBHD Kneel Downs ($800 retail and were sold out, god knows how much she spent as she refuses to tell me). They're great jeans but wouldn't consider them to be amazing jeans..sometimes price = great jeans, vice versa.

My 575s held up prety well against them all. I am in no way a 575 fan as I only have one pair. I have 2 pairs of the same AGs, and they fit more comfortable than any jean I have too. Also, I am not a AG fan either. I like all brands and give everyone a chance. I've found that TRs and RR are not my cup of tea. They don't fit me right. I just don't like the stitching on those jeans.

I like relaxed and loose fitting jeans. Others may favor slim cut jeans hence why they may gravitate to another brand. That was what I was arguing.

 

[usctrojan99]

Originally Posted by Coulomb

Barneys doesn't carry Samurai...

With that said, there's a certain look and aesthetic that these denims accomplish that the much loved Japanese brands here don't. So if your main object isn't the denim or construction, then brands like 575/TR/AG are fine.


I guess it depends on why people wear jeans. I wear jeans for comfort, versatility, and style. However, I have grown to appreciate other brands (Samuari, NBHD, PBJ) because of construction. However, I find myself wearing a pair of AGs when getting a cup of coffee in the morning? Why, because they're soft and light as a feather.

I do disagree about target market too. I think we're in a midway point in a jean culture. The TRs and the RRs of the worlds already had their best days. I see more and more people realizing there's more to life than TR and RR and COH.

I think denim has become proliferated at so many levels in that more and more people are becoming discretionary (which happens when you have choices and start realizing what quality denim is). It could be because of the influx of japanese denim that has made it's way here. It will be no time when Japanese denim companies will be advertising and popping up at malls. People may want to call it selling out, but if there is an appetite for these brands, these companies will pounce on that opportunity.

 

[usctrojan99]

Originally Posted by drizzt3117

The thing is, you can go to Nordstrom Rack and find 575, AG, TR, 7FAM, and COH, along with Sacred Blue, Mavi, Chip and Pepper, and the like. You're not going to find Nudie, and you certainly won't find Samurai.

I own about forty pairs of denim (mostly raw) in about 25 different brands from a variety of different countries. I don't find any given genre of denim overrepresented, I simply buy what I like. I own a pair of 575 jeans (M3, Midnight) that I bought from Nordstrom Rack at Metro Pointe on 40% additional clearance for $50. It's not bad for what it is, a lightly distressed cotton/lycra jean that is like my 7FAM Stretch Bootcuts but not quite as good a fit and isn't distressed as naturally. The fabric, at least to my hand, feels a bit lighter and softer, which is nice for comfort but probably not for longevity. Is it in the same class as my S7000VX? No, but then again, I didn't pay anywhere near as much for them. Would I be a satisified buyer at $241? Definitely not. That said, I think it's a decent pair of jeans, but probably won't be given a second glance by the average poster here, not because they are crappy, but because they

1) aren't of the aesthetic most people here like,

2) quality to price ratio at retail is horrendous.

3) aren't very durable because of their soft nature.

I would reference DGP's recent post about 5EP. Trying those jeans will change your worldview on denim.



I will agree with the quality to price with TR, RR, COH, etc is horrendous. That is why I haven't shopped for dress shirts or jean at Nordstroms,MACY's, etc in 3 years. It still boggles my mind that people spend $200 on those jeans.

But, most of the japanese brands make slim or straight cut (few exceptions though), which isn't my cup of tea. The quality of denim and construction may be good..but if they don't fit comfortably...it's a waste o money for me. My NBHD and PBJs are exceptions though. I enjoy them very much.

 

[drizzt3117]

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

I think denim has become proliferated at so many levels in that more and more people are becoming discretionary (which happens when you have choices and start realizing what quality denim is). It could be because of the influx of japanese denim that has made it's way here. It will be no time when Japanese denim companies will be advertising and popping up at malls. People may want to call it selling out, but if there is an appetite for these brands, these companies will pounce on that opportunity.

I don't think this will happen for a number of reasons.

1) Their production ability is too small.

2) Most people don't want to deal with unsanforized raw jeans. One wash is already pushing it in terms of maintainance, most people aren't hardcore enough to buy something they have to soak before wearing and aren't sure if they're going to fit eventually.

Honestly, it sounds like you need to try some of the better washed jeans from various high-end jean makers, such as the 5EP LDB Dark Worn, which would likely be essentially what you were looking for but with much higher quality, while still being very comfortable.

That said, if you're still going to maintain that you think Samurai denim and construction quality isn't better than 575 then I don't really know what to tell you. If you didn't like the fit than that's another issue altogether. I am a bit surprised, though, because most Sams are pretty loose fitting which seems to be what you are looking for.

 

[usctrojan99]

Originally Posted by chronoaug

Hold on. Since when does barneys carry Samurai. I'm calling total bullshit until i see actual proof as this makes zero sense. Why would they carry a small japanese brand that pretty much only forum members wear? Let's just pretend usctrojan and this thread didn't happen. We have one of these a month and they're never very productive. Sorority/frat wear vs. fashion/*** brands rarely ends with the person saying "you're right, this stuff is overpriced for how generic it is" and it's not like anyone in this forum is actually worried.

sorry misspoke with the samurai. check out barneys and thy carry nudie and gilded age.

Chronoaug, this is no indictment on japanese denim. And, if you don't think it's productive, don't read it. No loss on my part. You may want to read the posts again so you can better understand what I said.

 

[LA Guy]

To answer the original question, I would take a look at some Rag & Bone models. The company uses denim usually in the 12 ounce range, and most of the models are one wash (so, dark denim). The details are subtle, and the contrast stitching very subdued. A number of models are reasonably loose through the thighs. I always recommend this brand to people looking for a jean to be worn with sportsjackets (a practice I generally do not encourage, FWIW.)

Denimbar ( www.denimbaronline.com ) has a lot of models on sale right now.

 

[whodini]

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

I would argue that japanese denim is not superior quality across the board. I had a pair of Samurais (bought from BIGSoho) and they were pretty decent. I had given them to my brother after several months. But, given the price, I didn't think it was much better than $85 575's I bought at Off Saks. Again, I am simply comparing one size and cut to another. Others may vary.
I still think this is flawed thinking. You're comparing jeans you purchased at retail to jeans you bought in a bargain bin? At retail, 575 would be around $240 which is already more than PBJ and almost as much as SDA's or Sammy's. Are they still comparable? But let's forget value, you argue cut for price...

To me it's like buying the shell of a BMW with the engine and interior of a 1994 Ford Fiesta.

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

I like relaxed and loose fitting jeans. Others may favor slim cut jeans hence why they may gravitate to another brand. That was what I was arguing.
Like LAG said, R&B. Coming from someone who actually owns a pair (me), try it.

Originally Posted by usctrojan99

But, most of the japanese brands make slim or straight cut (few exceptions though), which isn't my cup of tea.
Now for the kicker, how is your magical pair of jeans cut? My money's on flarez.