Is business casual a contradiction?

[RogerC]

Buy basics first, statement pieces later. I love navy suede shoes, but you don't want to be known as "the guy wearing these blue shoes all the time".

 

[ClassAct]

So some tan/brown brogues for daily wear would be a sensible essential purchase?

 

[kalye]

Desert boots in dark brown
Blue pin whale cords in a 5 pocket jeans cut
Checked shirts
Sweaters
I have a slim tan leather satchel for papers and another keep all for the gym
the papers get crumpled easily even in messengers unless they are full
Sometimes it can fit my small laptop

 

[plei89]



Desert boots in dark brown
Blue pin whale cords in a 5 pocket jeans cut
Checked shirts
Sweaters
I have a slim tan leather satchel for papers and another keep all for the gym
the papers get crumpled easily even in messengers unless they are full
Sometimes it can fit my small laptop

Sorry sir, but we're discussing business casual here. I know some may be disagree with me, but Desert Boots are not business casual.

For bags I'd go with a messenger bag — a leather one (color would depend on which color shoe you think you'll be wearing most often). And also you should get a canvas one from filson (great for the gym and weekend hang outs outdoors as well).

As mentioned, I would stay away from navy suede shoes for now. If you were to get suede shoes, I'd go for chocolate brown.

 

[kalye]

if you don't get a crepe sole I really don't see how much different they are from a blucher.. He did say he needed a smarter pair of boots.

http://www.selectism.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/crockett-jones-chukka-boot-01.jpg

http://www.selectism.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/crockett-jones-grasmere-derby-01.JPG

 

[Frankie22]

Doing business casual right really is very simple.
- Take Will's advice on odd trousers
- Get yourself a number of odd jackets, making sure to cover the seasons. If you have the required odd trousers, matching them with any odd jacket will be a doddle.
- Go to Jermyn Street and ensure you have a wide range of shirts that you can use to dress the jacket-trousers combo up or down
- Add ties/pocket hanks as required
- For inexpensive but good shoes, I'd look at Meermin or Markowski.

Spot on

Biz casual is a breeze once you garner your cornerstone items, which are (in no particular order)

Odd jackets:
Wool navy sport coat (medium weight - year round work horse)
Linen or tropical weight navy sport coat (summer)
Tweed sport coat (fall)

Trousers:
Navy
Grey
Slim Chinos (for summer) khaki, white, tan

 

[HEARTLESS-531]

Of course it's a contradiction. Show up in a BB button down collar with no tie, you're a C player, bro.
Don't care if you're Steve Jobs.

 

[ClassAct]

Some good thoughts, my initial impression was also that desert boots were rather casual. By smarted boots I did mean something a bit higher for snow and heavy rain that can keep my feet dry. Having said that the desert boots you linked to were very smart looking.

Thanks to Frankie for backing up those previously made points. You've made it clear why investing in 3 sport coats will be wise as all 3 will get use during the year.

One of my concerns with biz-caj was looking like you've not dressed properly, such as wearing a shirt without a tie or a coat but I think with items such as a pocket square this could add a dressed up dimension in a subtle way.

I think you're right, two bags would be needed, a small one for just papers, laptop and other daily bits and pieces, and another bag where I'll be carrying around more clothes for the day. My issue with messenger bags is, don't they look a bit awkward and also have an adverse effect on posture? I think more of a briefcase hand held type bag looks much better but I'd like some opinions on this.

 

[Nikias]

As a fellow Brit only a couple of years older than you, one thing I would say is that you don't want to look too American based on what you read on SF. Some of the popular looks on this site, like navy blazers, button-down shirts, brown shoes, pocket squares etc. don't share the same popularity in the UK as they do in the States and elsewhere; you could stand out too much as a result if you turn up wearing all that gear. I do wear all those things myself, but generally not all at once!

The way I read your OP, you haven't actually started work at his job yet...If I have understood that right, then it might be better waiting until you start and see what everyone else is actually wearing before buying too many clothes. Then just buy similar, but better-fitting and more tasteful items than your peers. I would say for a 'business casual' environment you are already fairly well equipped for your first week if you have a few smart shirts (no button-down collar, trim fitting, no pocket etc.), a few smart v-neck jumpers and some woollen trousers in grey or navy etc. For your first day, you could just wear one of your suits with an open-neck shirt to work. If that seems too formal, then just take the jacket off and start gauging what everyone else is wearing for the future.

If I've got the wrong end of the stick with your work situation, then my apologies. I am starting out in a City law firm, so the dress code there is rather different and you may want to therefore take my advice with a pinch of salt anyway!

P.S. for the bag issue, I would agree that a messenger would be quite a good option. A briefcase goes better with a suit IMO. While studying I had a messenger bag from http://www.scaramangashop.co.uk that worked out quite well and I had a few compliments on over the years.

 

[williamson]



As a fellow Brit only a couple of years older than you, one thing I would say is that you don't want to look too American based on what you read on SF. Some of the popular looks on this site, like navy blazers, button-down shirts, brown shoes, pocket squares etc. don't share the same popularity in the UK as they do in the States and elsewhere; you could stand out too much as a result if you turn up wearing all that gear. I do wear all those things myself, but generally not all at once!

Very sensible advice.

...For your first day, you could just wear one of your suits with an open-neck shirt to work.

Please, NO! This "look" is not casual, it's quite simply WRONG. Instead, move the whole ensemble a step in the casual direction - wear a sports jacket and a tie.

 

[ClassAct]

It's true, you don't really see people going to work dressed so well here. Although in the streets of central London everyone is really well dressed.

Can you wear a sport coat without a tie if you're wearing a jumper?

 

[Nikias]



Very sensible advice.
Please, NO! This "look" is not casual, it's quite simply WRONG. Instead, move the whole ensemble a step in the casual direction - wear a sports jacket and a tie.

I did not mean to endorse this look as the pinnacle of sartorial elegance (I'm not a fan either and quite glad I don't have to do it myself), but it is very common here in those environments that don't require a suit and tie: I think ClassAct could do worse than turning up to his first day at the office looking like this. I do rather like the sports jacket and tie look and I think it looks sophisticated, but I would say that the nebulous dress code of 'business casual' in the UK usually means 'no tie required' at the highest level and something rather like streetwear at the lowest end. Wearing a tie (even with an odd jacket) = formal to many people and could look a bit out of place in a 'business casual' environment, although I suppose you could always take the tie off.

Buying a tasteful, well-fitting, youthful-but-not-Topman sports jacket is also no easy task in the UK and would maybe be better left for later once our OP has had time to test the waters at work and knows that such a thing would be a worthwhile addition to his wardrobe. The very nature of the dress code means there is no real right or wrong answer to this question per se.

It's true, you don't really see people going to work dressed so well here. Although in the streets of central London everyone is really well dressed.

Can you wear a sport coat without a tie if you're wearing a jumper?

Yes, certainly; it will alter the fit slightly, however, with the extra bulk. Quite a nice look in milder weather if you get the ensemble right. I would stick to v-neck jumpers and be careful co-ordinating the shirt/v-neck/sports coat - don't overdo the colours and patterns unless you are quite the aesthete. In terms of boots btw, you might want to look into a pair of chelsea boots with rubber soles for wet weather. Some of the Northampton shoe brands will be on sale in the summer I imagine. For a coat, I would suggest a simple, inexpensive single-breasted rain mac in something like beige, navy, grey or whatever. This is more open to personal taste though as you will not be wearing it around the office.

 

[RogerC]



Buying a tasteful, well-fitting, youthful-but-not-Topman sports jacket is also no easy task in the UK and would maybe be better left for later once our OP has had time to test the waters at work and knows that such a thing would be a worthwhile addition to his wardrobe. The very nature of the dress code means there is no real right or wrong answer to this question per se.

True, but not impossible. OP is in London, a visit to Jermyn Street should do the trick. Alternatively, Jaeger has some fine offerings as well. The clue is to have a knowledgeable salesperson...

 

[ClassAct]

Mac coats are nice, however I have a liking for medium to long wool trench coats, this would also work wouldn't it?

I think realistically in mild weather (assuming no one else is wearing a coat) the look will be shirt, v neck jumper, odd trousers and brown/black leather shoes (brogues or oxfords). The thing with wearing the jumper, as was mentioned, is that it does make the top half very bulky and bordering on uncomfortable. Would a cardigan be a better option?

However in warmer temperatures I'm not keen on wearing a shirt without a tie or jacket so am not sure what would be the best decision in this case. A linen coat would be great as, pointed out, but if no one else is wearing one, would it be a case of removing it while at the office. Also I'm assuming the general rule, if you wear a jacket you must wear a tie applies.

 

[williamson]



I did not mean to endorse this look as the pinnacle of sartorial elegance (I'm not a fan either and quite glad I don't have to do it myself), but it is very common here in those environments that don't require a suit and tie

I appreciate your reaction to my viewpoint, but the frequency of the look doesn't make it right!
Suit without tie is itself a contradiction - the open-necked shirt is casual, the suit formal, so mixed messages are sent. Adding a jacket to an open-necked-shirt ensemble does NOT dress it up in any way.

I do rather like the sports jacket and tie look and I think it looks sophisticated, but I would say that the nebulous dress code of 'business casual' in the UK usually means 'no tie required' at the highest level and something rather like streetwear at the lowest end. Wearing a tie (even with an odd jacket) = formal to many people and could look a bit out of place in a 'business casual' environment .

I find this decidedly odd, as it was my daily wear (as a teacher) throughout my career, and was what the great majority of male teachers wore and still wear. I do not see a tie as formal - the idea that it is comes from Hollywood, most likely.

For a coat, I would suggest a simple, inexpensive single-breasted rain mac in something like beige, navy, grey or whatever.

Mac coats are nice, however I have a liking for medium to long wool trench coats, this would also work wouldn't it?

I'm glad that the question of outerwear has been raised, as in Britain it's so often forgotten despite our climate. Both ideas are good, though for different weather conditions.

...in mild weather (assuming no one else is wearing a coat) the look will be shirt, v neck jumper, odd trousers and brown/black leather shoes (brogues or oxfords).

Fine!

Also I'm assuming the general rule, if you wear a jacket you must wear a tie applies.

This is what I would urge, though apparently the "style forum mantra" says the opposite. (This could be a UK/USA cultural difference.) You can take your jacket off inside, after all.