How Do You Find A Good Tailor?

[dieworkwear]

Over the years, I've come to feel that many of the things we discuss and learn here have limited application in the real world. There are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of threads on technical details such as sleeve pitch, balance, collar gap, dimpled sleeveheads, and my favorite (for those who remember) pa-fucked.

But in the real world, you have to find someone who can address these issues for you. You can use the knowledge you've gained here to train your eye for what's good, but you can't tell a tailor what to do. If he or she doesn't know how to do something, you're not going to teach them because you also don't know. And if the tailor is skilled, he or she doesn't need you to guide them. Sometimes when I see bad tailoring on here, it's because the customer meddled too much in the process.

More than learning about technical issues, I think it's useful to learn how to find skilled people. This can be about local alteration tailors, cobblers, shoemakers, bespoke tailors, and cleaners. I'm curious if people have learned lessons along the way on how to do this. So I thought I'd start a discussion thread.

Some things I've learned over the years. Note, these are in no way hardline rules.

Plainspoken: I find the best people I've worked with over the years are very plainspoken. Again, this is not a hardline rule. But some of the worst people I've worked with are basically like the stereotype of a salesperson -- they'll talk about the romance of craft and tradition, talk about famous clients, talk about other tailors or businesses. But many of the best craftspeople I've known talk about their work in a very plain and almost unromantic manner. It's just very matter-of-fact and straightforward. When I meet someone like this, I tend to think it's a good sign that I'm working with someone who's good at what they do.

Technical Person On-Site: Similar to the point above, I think it's useful to have the technical person who'll be working on your item on-site. If you're working with a bespoke tailoring company, it's nice to be able to have the cutter who will be cutting your garment present at your fittings. Obviously, for things such as MTM, this may not be possible. I've also worked with one company where only the fitter was present, but they were an excellent fitter.

Recommendations: I think people speak more candidly about alteration tailors and cleaners. If you live in a big city, you may be able to find recommendations local to you by searching boards such as this one. But for some reason, clients of bespoke tailors are timid about sharing their bad experiences. If you're going to go to a bespoke tailor, see if you can track down previous clients and get their opinion privately. Ideally, this is someone who has extensive experience and has worked with other tailors, but that's not always possible. Also, it would be great if that person has a similar build to you, but that's also not always possible.

For alterations, cleaners, and cobblers, if you can't find a recommendation on this board, I think it's useful to contact high-end stores and see if they can recommend someone. I once found an excellent knitwear alterations shop in my city this way. Sometimes stores such as Saks will send stuff out. So they may know who's reliable.

Curious, what do you do to find good tailors, cobblers, shoemakers, and the like?

 

[dauster]

Great idea to start a thread like this even though I don’t feel I can comment much because I just started using tailors/ cobblers etc so most of my things I commissioned are still not completed. But I definitely would agree about plainspoken craftsman ( no BS) and having the cutter / boot maker present when getting fitted.

 

[norMD]

Cant speak for picking bespoke. But for alteration tailors and cobblers there is a bit of trial and error. I often talk to sales people in decent stores about who the store uses and who they use on private. If the job is complicated I ask if they are comfortable with doing it.

What I find strange is the difference in quality among craftsmen on simple tasks. Like rubber topy soles. Some come loose after one wear and others last for years.

 

[Ebitdaddy]

This is great advice! Personally I've had good luck going off SF recommendations and historic threads here too.

 

[FlyingHorker]

I test them by seeing how they handle simple alterations such as taking a shirt in, or hemming jeans.

What I've learned is many people employ the "Fast and cheap, but not well done" model. Fine for hemming pants, not much else.

My first, and current tailor I found through a salesman at Men's Wearhouse.

He was very honest and said that "You won't be satisfied here if you're looking for canvassed suits and a lower button stance, check this guy out."

That tailor also sells clothing, so there is a sales aspect to it as well. Years ago I bought a slim fit suit with a low rise from him, which was a regret. His first opening lines to me were "You looking for a skinny suit?"

I learned that it benefits to know exactly what you want and then receive some guidance as well from the tailor. Ex: If I didn't point out my sports coat's collar gap, he wouldn't have said anything or altered it.

Knowing that though, he is capable of narrowing an overcoat's shoulders and shortening the collar, both which are not easy alterations.

 

[R.O. Thornhill]

Great idea for a thread. In an ideal world recommendations would be more useful than they are, but who can you trust? Even in London getting a good recommendation is unusual; and this works both ways. I have had many colleagues ask who they should go to for shirts and suits, and despite us being extremely comfortably off they find the idea of spending even £3k on a suit of £250 on a bespoke shirt absurd.

I am far from a fan of Simon Compton, but he has been very helpful in likes of Burford Valet (for shoe care and suit pressing), and various places for cashmere care and so on

Wholeheartedly agree with the focus on plainspoken-ness. If someone can’t give a straight answer to a technical question they are unlikely to be who you are looking for

R-O-T

 

[heldentenor]

This thread is necessary and LONG overdue. Should be pinned to the front page of Classic Menswear.

It took me a lot of trial and error, and a lot of discussions (here and elsewhere) about fit, construction, and just the complexity of shape in tailored clothing (especially jackets) before I knew enough to even recognize good tailoring. I live in a top-20 metro and been through six tailors in seven years (the best of them effectively fired me when they stopped taking outside alterations. Expensive, but they taught me a ton and did quality work).

I currently have two: an alterations tailor/nail salon owner who is trustworthy, has high standards, and is very good at what she does. She's taken sleeves up at the shoulder, altered lightweight fabrics that show poor workmanship easily, and listens well to my preferences. Her works is always clean, but she has her limits. Once, she attempted to raise the collar on a sportcoat and raised only the fabric (not the canvas beneath), so there's about a 1 cm gap between where the collar ends and the structure underneath it.

For more technical work, I go to New York and give stuff to Sam Wazin. Sometimes I have a friend pick it up, sometimes I'm lucky to be in town multiples times within a reasonably close window. Often I'll let a few things build up between trips and bring him several things at once.

 

[dauster]

Great idea for a thread. In an ideal world recommendations would be more useful than they are, but who can you trust? Even in London getting a good recommendation is unusual; and this works both ways. I have had many colleagues ask who they should go to for shirts and suits, and despite us being extremely comfortably off they find the idea of spending even £3k on a suit of £250 on a bespoke shirt absurd.

I am far from a fan of Simon Compton, but he has been very helpful in likes of Burford Valet (for shoe care and suit pressing), and various places for cashmere care and so on

Wholeheartedly agree with the focus on plainspoken-ness. If someone can’t give a straight answer to a technical question they are unlikely to be who you are looking for

R-O-T

What’s your issue with Simon Crompton?

 

[ValidusLA]

@dieworkwear I heartily agree with you three points above.

1) Though my tailor in LA has a large celebrity clientele and they do put photos on the wall - this wasn't what brought me in. They don't really try to "sell" stuff to people very hard. Very down to earth and straightforward about asking what you want and how they can deliver that.

2) This is the biggest one to me. My tailor has the pattern makers / cutter on site. Honestly I interact with him directly when I am designing commissions. At this point he seems to know what I want on certain things before I even say it.

3) I think some people are loath to talk about their bespoke tailors here because unless they paid $5K+ and/or admit that maybe their tailor machine sewed on something somewhere someone's going to start screaming its not bespoke. That being said, I found my tailor through a friend after seeing their work on him. As you said, he is much like me - very broad chest but not as large in the waist. Even more pronounced chest than me though. I'm a 46 chest to 34/35 waist. He's a 56 chest to a like 46 waist.

Alterations I do at the same tailor.

Clearner - we have an about 100 year old hand laundry in town that does a fantastic job. I actually walked through their operation last week because I talk clothing with them and they wanted to show me. They take off the top button and sleeve buttons before laundering, which I never knew. Crazy that they do what they do at the price they charge.

Cobbler is honestly the hardest. I found a good one recently but I took a long time. Found on Yelp.

 

[driving glove]

Adding my endorsement to the criteria already mentioned. Will try to make my points by recapping my story. Scroll to the bottom if you simply want the take-home points.
In my case I got some basic knowledge from this forum, in particular, simply looking at posted photos and the accompanying critiques. That helped me get an elementary sense of taste discrimination, both in cut and colour/pattern. From that, I learned enough to see that off-the-rack Canali fit me better than what I wore before. After a while I recognised that I admired the style of certain guys, like the Armoury crew, and Graeme Wong, who were posting about the time that I found Styleforum, especially their colour and pattern matching.
Then I was exposed to bespoke tailoring by a fluke: my father passed away suddenly and, unbeknownst to me, he had paid for a tailor-made pair of pants, that my stepmother kindly wanted me to have. It was a small, one-man shop owned by a tailor from Calabria. The pants had been completed and were a disaster because I am taller and a different body shape than my late father. The tailor completely recut the pants, with additional fittings, at no additional charge beyond what my father had paid him. The line of clean line of the back of the pants and the way they were contoured to my seat was an education, as was the higher rise. I commissioned some suits and they fit even better than my off-the-rack Canali, especially following the line of the spine. I learned why these clothes fit better, my body does not match a block pattern well: I have kyphosis, a dropped shoulder, a narrow frame but a pigeon chest, uneven hips, "padded pectorals" and a long torso with short legs (relatively). I started to notice some basics when looking at clothes on other men like jackets and pants that hung cleanly without significant ripples, or the reverse..
A few years ago, my wife and I had a getaway to a major city several thousand miles and across an international border from where we live. My wife likes to sleep in, I get up early. At this point, tailored clothing had become a minor interest. There was a Famous Tailor in that city. I thought it might be interesting to meet someone who had developed a reputation like that. I have met a few in my line of work and they run the spectrum, some are egotists and others are down-to-earth, yet inspirational.
His shop was a block away from our hotel, close enough to satisfy a whim, so I dropped by but he was out. Later that day we returned to our hotel and on our way tried again and met the FT. He was a surprise: down-to earth, tieless, wearing a cardigan over slacks and tolerated a "tire-kicker" with a little knowledge, with good humour. He was scrupulous about avoiding any critique about the jacket I was wearing until I prodded him and simply suggested things that he would do differently if I was a client. That won me over. He pointed out things I had never seen without a trace of denigration of the way my jacket was made. I placed my first order that day and have never looked back. The garments are expensive because I have to save for a trip each time which drags out the fittings, and it has required more discipline than I like to maintain the same body shape as I get older.

My conclusions:

1. You don't know what you don't know. Until you educate your eye, or have the good luck to meet someone who can share the knowledge, you won't know a good tailor when you meet one.
2. If you have a very "normal" body shape you do not need a real tailor unless you value the craftsmanship, or you are looking for atypical features or fabrics. There is probably a block cut that will do the trick and give you near-instant gratification.
3. I think a smaller operation will tend to have more continuity over time. It must be a nightmare for large tailoring houses to maintain the level of service quality as older workers retire and are replaced, especially as few people are 'lifers" with an employer now.
4. Start small with a solid coloured or small-patterned piece in order to "see" the cut better until you have a better eye to assess your tailor. On the other hand, looking at patterned items of a tailor's work before you commission one will give you an idea of whether the pattern "runs away" down the torso when it is worn.
5. Look at what you see posted on the forum and what you like. Reach out to a poster whose clothes you admire for a recommendation. Informed word-of-mouth works well in most decision-making.
6. (Very personal opinion!) Get the gimmicks out of your system and refine your sense of style before you move up to serious bespoke. The fabrics and workmanship are not cheap, so even if you find the right tailor you won't wear that shawl-collared, gauntlet-cuffed, action-backed dinner jacket, with frogged closures, down the road, trust me.

 

[comrade]

"For alterations, cleaners, and cobblers, if you can't find a recommendation on this board, I think it's useful to contact high-end stores and see if they can recommend someone. I once found an excellent knitwear alterations shop in my city this way. Sometimes stores such as Saks will send stuff out. So they may know who's reliable."

This what I have recommended several times on SF. I live 10 minutes from Nieman Marcus and Wilkes
Bashford, very high end stores. Most such stores have outside tailors for special projects or when their
own tailors can't keep up with their work. I found my very expert tailor this way. Unfortunately, he will be
retiring soon, so the process will begin again. I doubt that my next tailor will also be 5 minutes from my home.

 

[Big A]

For a tailor: above all, find someone who is an exacting pain ********** and use their tailor. That’s how I found NSM and Steed. I had mixed results with NSM as they became forum favorites and got too busy, but Steed delivered