Did COVID Kill the Suit?

[Blastwice]

I really don't get the whole "I want to wear a suit for work, but without a tie". I don't see how any suit is enhanced, in the context of work at least, without a tie. Maybe in the context of wearing a suit for going out on the town and clubbing and the like, but when I see a man wearing a suit without a tie, I'm like: Why? Why do you think this makes what you're wearing look -better-? This also holds true of wearing a dress shirt with a sports coat, too, in the context of a professional environment. It reminds me of Mitt Romney and other crappily dressed politicians.

Do some men really find a tie that annoying to wear? Because I have a feeling their shirt collars must be fitting very poorly or they are tying the tie to the point of making it into a noose.

100% agree and I think this is due to a combination of a few things:

• Suits are often worn without ties in popular media/culture, because it's an easy way to make a man look both dressed up and overworked/busy/frazzled/etc. (aka a shortcut)
• Suits are often sold at the wrong size, too tight, proportions not generous enough, so a lot of guys feel they have to wear open, without a tie to be able to relax their shoulders normally, etc.
• Wrong collar fitting on their shirts (stores will always fit you too tight, IMO)
• Ties require some taste and that's hard

 

[TimothyF]

I'll provide another reason: Wearing a suit with necktie screams 100% formal to many (uninformed) people, a good percentage of whom will say "Why so dressed up? Got an interview?"

As a result many people feel self-conscious wearing a tie if they don't see their peers wearing one, with the result that no one wears.

 

[JFWR]

100% agree and I think this is due to a combination of a few things:

• Suits are often worn without ties in popular media/culture, because it's an easy way to make a man look both dressed up and overworked/busy/frazzled/etc. (aka a shortcut)
• Suits are often sold at the wrong size, too tight, proportions not generous enough, so a lot of guys feel they have to wear open, without a tie to be able to relax their shoulders normally, etc.
• Wrong collar fitting on their shirts (stores will always fit you too tight, IMO)
• Ties require some taste and that's hard

Yeah, I would see #1 on TV shows like Suits and the like. Whenever Harvey Specter would be tired and worn out from some legal case, he'd be without his tie that he'd otherwise wear and then talk about how crappy the Current Crisis of the Season was. It's definitely a trope on TV.

2. Absolutely. I think a lot of discomfort men have in general is that they don't realize how to get a good fit on their suits, which admittedly can be an opaque process because men don't have a lot of people to guide them anymore. You used to be able to rely on the salesmen at Brooks Brothers and the like to help you pick out the right suit. Not so much anymore.

3. Absolutely this as well. I always suggest to men to give yourself a bit of extra room on the neck if you are sensitive to enclosed necks. I know that I don't want an EXTREMELY TIGHT fit, as that does get uncomfortable, and that you want to be able to breathe. Once you have a collar that fits, it makes a world of difference to comfort, as really tight clothes make you feel like you're stuffed into sausage casing.

4. I mean, this I think is the easiest thing to address. Ties aren't that hard to match if you just put some thought into collar combinations and the like. Certain colours go better with navy, charcoal, brown, etc. Though some men are clueless about this because they aren't really into style.

We have to remember that the average person is not really a style-focused individual. This is okay, because style is not the end all, be all of existence. Nevertheless, if you want to look good, taking just a tiny bit of effort can make all the difference in the world.

 

[Blastwice]

I'll provide another reason: Wearing a suit with necktie screams 100% formal to many (uninformed) people, a good percentage of whom will say "Why so dressed up? Got an interview?"

As a result many people feel self-conscious wearing a tie if they don't see their peers wearing one, with the result that no one wears.

Yeah, agreed. People actually say this to me almost every day I wear a tie out.

Ties are... a bit trickier than you might think. It's really easy to pick out things that go out of style instantly, and if you're too tall or too short or want to tie your tie in a specific way, there is a good chance OTR ties aren't going to flatter you.

If celebrity photos are anything to go by, there are a lot of ugly ties out there.

 

[TimothyF]

Yeah, agreed. People actually say this to me almost every day I wear a tie out.

Ties are... a bit trickier than you might think. It's really easy to pick out things that go out of style instantly, and if you're too tall or too short or want to tie your tie in a specific way, there is a good chance OTR ties aren't going to flatter you.

If celebrity photos are anything to go by, there are a lot of ugly ties out there.

On tasteless designs, I agree. Personally I find enough variety in the classics. If people stick only to what J Press, O'Connell's, and Chipp offer I think they are unlikely to go wrong.

 

[TomTom]

I really don't get the whole "I want to wear a suit for work, but without a tie". I don't see how any suit is enhanced, in the context of work at least, without a tie. Maybe in the context of wearing a suit for going out on the town and clubbing and the like, but when I see a man wearing a suit without a tie, I'm like: Why? Why do you think this makes what you're wearing look -better-? This also holds true of wearing a dress shirt with a sports coat, too, in the context of a professional environment. It reminds me of Mitt Romney and other crappily dressed politicians.

Do some men really find a tie that annoying to wear? Because I have a feeling their shirt collars must be fitting very poorly or they are tying the tie to the point of making it into a noose.

I agree with you. It looks like you have forgotten something in the morning . If I wear a suit I always wear a tie. Ok , when I was wearing a shirt in the summer , sometimes I did not wear a tie,but then again it was 40 degrees

 

[chobochobo]

I haven't worn a suit to work since Feb 2020.

Ironically (or perhaps not that ironic) I wore a suit today, though it wasn't strictly 'to work', it was 'for (some) work'. Thank goodness I'm still as fat as I was in 2019.

 

[bicycleradical]

I still wear my suits however only for going out. I don't think I've ever actually worked at a place that mandated suits as a dress code so not much has changed on my end.

 

[Epaulet]

I'll provide another reason: Wearing a suit with necktie screams 100% formal to many (uninformed) people, a good percentage of whom will say "Why so dressed up? Got an interview?"

As a result many people feel self-conscious wearing a tie if they don't see their peers wearing one, with the result that no one wears.

Agreed. Ties are a niche product these days, and IMO they'll never return to anywhere near the ubiquity that they once had.

Outside of menswear style enthusiasts, the average guy wants no part of them. They read as formal or stuffy. A lot of men (maybe the majority) find them uncomfortable and unnecessary. A lot of women don't like to see them on men.

They'll still be used in formal settings and there will still be stylish guys who enjoy and wear them well, but their mainstream relevance is over. Even if Brooks Brothers didn't declare bankruptcy in 2020, their tie factory had been running at a heavy loss for years.

 

[JFWR]

Agreed. Ties are a niche product these days, and IMO they'll never return to anywhere near the ubiquity that they once had.

Outside of menswear style enthusiasts, the average guy wants no part of them. They read as formal or stuffy. A lot of men (maybe the majority) find them uncomfortable and unnecessary. A lot of women don't like to see them on men.

They'll still be used in formal settings and there will still be stylish guys who enjoy and wear them well, but their mainstream relevance is over. Even if Brooks Brothers didn't declare bankruptcy in 2020, their tie factory had been running at a heavy loss for years.

Women don't like ties? Like, is this something new? I've never heard that.

 

[bicycleradical]

Women don't like ties? Like, is this something new? I've never heard that.

It's news to me as well. I usually get compliments from women if I wear a nice tie.

 

[Epaulet]

Women don't like ties? Like, is this something new? I've never heard that.

Haha well, obviously not all women, but in my unscientific and anecdotal experience, women can find ties to be stuffy and too formal.

I'm not talking about a SF man who wears a custom DB suit with an elegant patterned shirt and a perfectly matched Drake's tie. I'm sure that anyone reading this thread has good taste in neckwear and pairs things well. Women definitely notice when a man has a well-coordinated and interesting tailored outfit. Tie included.

I'm talking average guy, wearing an okay OTR suit, and pairing it with a common necktie. Outside of a wedding, I think that many women would prefer him not to wear a tie. As @Blastwice said, a sharp fitted suit and an open shirt with no tie is commonly shown as a way to look handsome in pop culture.

 

[JFWR]

It's news to me as well. I usually get compliments from women if I wear a nice tie.

Yes, I frequently get women noticing my tie. I am not saying every day, but routinely enough.

 

[JFWR]

Haha well, obviously not all women, but in my unscientific and anecdotal experience, women can find ties to be stuffy and too formal.

I'm not talking about a SF man who wears a custom DB suit with an elegant patterned shirt and a perfectly matched Drake's tie. I'm sure that anyone reading this thread has good taste in neckwear and pairs things well. Women definitely notice when a man has a well-coordinated and interesting tailored outfit. Tie included.

I'm talking average guy, wearing an okay OTR suit, and pairing it with a common necktie. Outside of a wedding, I think that many women would prefer him not to wear a tie. As @Blastwice said, a sharp fitted suit and an open shirt with no tie is commonly shown as a way to look handsome in pop culture.

I mean, I have the exact opposite perspective there: In pop culture, the only people seen wearing the "dress shirt, no tie" are badly dressed politicians (e.g. Mitt Romney, pardon me as I don't know enough Democrat sartorial choices to keep it balanced here) or poorly dressed finance types trying to "dress down", like Larry Kudlow. In the context of business, at least. I'm not talking about suits worn for clubbing and the like.

The only time someone is depicted as looking cool is when they freshly remove the tie to basically "destress".

I also don't really think it's that difficult to get a few tasteful ties that work with one's outfits. Unless one is completely blind to colour combinations and patterns, it is extremely easy to pair a tie with a jacket and shirt.

 

[Epaulet]

I mean, I have the exact opposite perspective there: In pop culture, the only people seen wearing the "dress shirt, no tie" are badly dressed politicians (e.g. Mitt Romney, pardon me as I don't know enough Democrat sartorial choices to keep it balanced here) or poorly dressed finance types trying to "dress down", like Larry Kudlow. In the context of business, at least. I'm not talking about suits worn for clubbing and the like.

The only time someone is depicted as looking cool is when they freshly remove the tie to basically "destress".

I also don't really think it's that difficult to get a few tasteful ties that work with one's outfits. Unless one is completely blind to colour combinations and patterns, it is extremely easy to pair a tie with a jacket and shirt.

Haha, well in politics, I remember when Andrew Yang caused a stir by not wearing a tie to a debate.

I personally love to see ties and 3-piece suits and all aspects of elegant tailoring. I'm just talking in generalities here, and the numbers tell a different story. Suits and ties are increasingly falling in popularity, and their former relevance as the default daily white-collar look is probably never coming back. At least in North America. I recognize that other countries have not relaxed their workplace dress codes as much.

The Atlantic did a decent piece on this last year

I definitely believe that beautiful suits and ties will still be actively made and enjoyed by style enthusiasts. Just like vinyl and hi-fi equipment is enjoyed by audiophiles... even if the masses are content with streaming music and bluetooth speakers.