Crockett and Jones Chelsea Boots

[Sator]

I just saw the C&J Chelsea boots as I have just returned from a trip which involved a day or so in London where I visited Jermyn St and Savile Row.

A comparison of C&J and RMW is an interesting one. C&Js have finer stitching and with the better ranges have much better channel stitching in the sole. RMW however are superior in the construction of the upper in that they are a whole cut Chelsea in which a proper old fashioned blocking technique has been used. If you choose the RMW French veal calf it is as good as the leathers used by C&J in my opinion.

Whole cut Chelseas are only available from one other RTW bootmaker I am aware of and that is JM Weston who charge around $900 USD for them. This construction technique adds greatly to the fit and comfort of the boots and is usually found only in bespoke boots.

For more details:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=21179

 

[grimslade]

I have both RMWs and PRL Reddings made by C&J. I like both. But I have to say that there is no comparison between the two in terms of construction and quality of leather in my view. The C&Js (the Reddings are made to near-handgrade quality) are more refined and, it seems to me, made from a more substantial, harder-wearing leather. Of course, they cost a lot more too. Just my $0.02. I own RMWs and will probably buy them again in the future, but they are what they are.

 

[tom288]

Thanks for the help, I guess I have a decision to make between Williams and CJ. I see Plal.com had better pricing for the CJ. What vendors do you recommend for RM Williams, Bootsonline.com? Thanks for all of the help and opinions. Just on a side note, how do Williams boots tend to run, should I go with a 9 there as well?

Perhaps I should do the only sensible thing and order both pairs, I could justify it in that they are made in two different, albeit beautiful, colors...

 

[DocHolliday]

Check out Sator's thread for sizing info. In general, I think people have been dropping one full size from their AE Park Avenue size -- so a 9.5D in Park Aves would wear an 8.5F Australian in RM Williams. Sator's thread, however, has a much more nuanced explanation.

Personally, I ordered an 8, when I normally wear a 9-9.5. They were very snug at first, but they've worked out great.

 

[LabelKing]

The C&J Redding seems to have a more elegant last than the RM Williams, which has a broader toe.

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by grimslade

I have both RMWs and PRL Reddings made by C&J. I like both. But I have to say that there is no comparison between the two in terms of construction and quality of leather in my view. The C&Js (the Reddings are made to near-handgrade quality) are more refined and, it seems to me, made from a more substantial, harder-wearing leather. Of course, they cost a lot more too. Just my $0.02. I own RMWs and will probably buy them again in the future, but they are what they are.

There is much truth to this when it comes to the standard Craftsman boot by RMW - it is just a question of whether you feel the extra price of the C&Js is worth it.

That said I am planning an update to my RMW thread which will substantially level the playing field and I will come up with a way of custom ordering an RMW boot that looks almost as sleek as a JL 8000 last (side by side photographic evidence will be provided). I think you will all be pleasantly surprised!

 

[lefty]

Sator,

you may want to add a line about the difference between the goodyear welted sole and the screwed sole.

As explained to me, the screwed sole is solely for riding and will not hold up to street wear. I almost ordered it.

lefty

 

[lawyerdad]

Originally Posted by lefty

Sator,

you may want to add a line about the difference between the goodyear welted sole and the screwed sole.

As explained to me, the screwed sole is solely for riding and will not hold up to street wear. I almost ordered it.

lefty
Some people were recently praising the nailed sole over the welted sole. Is the screwed sole the same as the nailed sole, or something different?

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by lefty

Sator, you may want to add a line about the difference between the goodyear welted sole and the screwed sole. As explained to me, the screwed sole is solely for riding and will not hold up to street wear. I almost ordered it. lefty
Nobody at the RMW store in Sydney has said anything to that effect to me including the more knowledgable of the staff. This is what the RMW website has to say about the subject: R.M.Williams is one of only a handful of bootmakers worldwide that still use brass screws in sole construction. R.M.Williams’ screwed soles make work boots more comfortable and secure because the brass wears down with the leather, and are also used for some dress and riding boots. The term comes from the fact that soft brass, screw threaded wire is spun at high speed on a machine that “screws” the sole to the leather inner sole of the boot. http://www.rmwilliams.com.au/home.as...E375FF88B6107A My understanding is that this old fashioned construction is still favoured by some Austro-Hungarian shoemakers and that the result is a construction as hardy and resolable as a Goodwear welted boot. It is rare to find it amongst RTW makers and is usually a feature found on bespoke boots. The result is a sleeker looking silhouette all round. The only disadvantage I have heard (in discussions of Austro-Hungarian bootmakers) is that it sometimes makes the sole less flexible than a Goodyear welted boot.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Sator

There is much truth to this when it comes to the standard Craftsman boot by RMW - it is just a question of whether you feel the extra price of the C&Js is worth it.

That said I am planning an update to my RMW thread which will substantially level the playing field and I will come up with a way of custom ordering an RMW boot that looks almost as sleek as a JL 8000 last (side by side photographic evidence will be provided). I think you will all be pleasantly surprised!

Is this what you mentioned regarding dropping down 2 in width and half up in size?
Sounds good!

 

[lefty]

I'm quoting the clerks at the NY store, who also said that the boots would be very uncomfortable worn as a street boot.

And from Barry at bootsonline:

"Screwed sole is lighter and sleeker looking. Apparently screwed sole is better for riding in as it slips more easily in and out of the stirrups."

My guess is that it is a riding boot that can take some walking wear, but may not hold up as well as the goodyear boot , designed solely for work and dress.

Perhaps a call to the factory is in order.

lefty

 

[Sator]

Originally Posted by skalogre

Is this what you mentioned regarding dropping down 2 in width and half up in size? Sounds good!
Yes. You've let the cat out the bag. Photos to follow. Somewhere there was a mix up in the order and I ended up with the boots being Goodyear welted. It is already giving the JL 8000 lasted Canonbury boots I own a run for their money for sleekness and elegance of the last. All it needs is the extra sleekness of the screwed construction and it will be a giant slayer.

 

[william]

Originally Posted by Sator

Yes. You've let the cat out the bag. Photos to follow. Somewhere there was a mix up in the order and I ended up with the boots being Goodyear welted. It is already giving the JL 8000 lasted Canturbury boots I own a run for their money for sleekness and elegance of the last. All it needs is the extra sleekness of the screwed construction and it will be a giant slayer.

I can't wait to see these..

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Sator

Yes. You've let the cat out the bag. Photos to follow. Somewhere there was a mix up in the order and I ended up with the boots being Goodyear welted. It is already giving the JL 8000 lasted Canturbury boots I own a run for their money for sleekness and elegance of the last. All it needs is the extra sleekness of the screwed construction and it will be a giant slayer.

Oooops

Sorry about that. I am really looking forward to seeing these!

 

[Sator]

It will give me a chance to post pics comparing a Goodyear welted and a screwed construction RMW boot side by side with all other construction features being equal. Steve on Nungar is chasing them up today to see what's happening with the order. I think the results should be amazing!