Is black suit an acceptable business attire?

It is good to have a set of rules to start one properly down a path, but to follow a so-called rule book slavishly is to display a lack of creativity and imagination. Rules, after all, were made to be broken. Naturally, some may be more successful than others in their endeavors to this end. Inarguably, some of the 20th century's snappiest dressers were those who broke the rules, or rewrote them to accomodate their own innate sense of style. Of course these individuals were the exceptions to the "rules".

Okay, so I missed one that *might* talk about the evolution of modern fashion:

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You missed a lot more than that. If you have actually read the books you claim to have read and still have this opinion, your reading skills are deficient.

I am of the opinion, and perhaps Manton does not agree, that the period between 1950 and today is just as relevant as the century preceding that, and the centuries preceding that. I will compile a list sometime so that it may likewise be derided by other forum participants.

No, I guess that I hadn't gotten the joke. I was too busy being a smartass.

You missed a lot more than that. If you have actually read the books you claim to have read and still have this opinion, your reading skills are deficient.

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Apparently my reading skills are deficient then.

I merely asked you to provide some of your sources so that I can judge myself. You give me a link.....to Alan Flusser. Flusser.

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25 books, four by Flusser.  You repeat Flusser's name with a snarky explanation point as if merely stating his name is sufficient proof of the absurdity of citing Flusser as a source.  Really?  Why so?  Can you refute Flusser through your own reading, experience, or knowledge?  If so, I await the demonstration.

In any case, you are silent on the 21 books that are not by Flusser.  Plus the post I recently made on the LL which listed at least a dozen books not mentioned on that list, including the 3-volume, iconic 1936 handbook of London tailoring.  Those are "some" of my sources.  Have you read them all yet?  Any of them?  Do so, and then we can more profitably resume this conversation.

I could also mention the dozens of artisans and people in the business I have gotten to know over the years, and from whom I have learned.  But when I consider writing you letters of introduction to them, so you can cross check your doubts with them as well, amazingly prudence stays my hand.

From Plato to Flusser. That is quite a descent isn't it (another young American by the way)?

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I can tell that you think this is very clever.  Beyond that, I have no idea what it means.

I did not offer Centofanti and his staff and the picture I saw as proof the rules do not exist. I offer them as the reasons an inquiry is worthwhile. And I did not say you should not fall back on any authority, I wrote that you should not rely on someone's credentials.

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Ah, yes.  The Bresch pattern of debate.  So familiar by now.  If I may be allowed to summarize:

BRESCH: The sky is lime green.
WELL MEANING INTERLOCUTOR: Uh, Dave?  Have you looked up lately?  The sky is blue.
BRESCH: How dare you. When did I ever say otherwise?  Don't twist my words.  I know what color the sky is.  It's a fine shade of blue-green.  Why is everyone attacking me?  Steve.  J.  Malinda.  Make them stop.

These "rules" as you describe them, which actually appear to me to be a set of regionalisms that I am guessing emenate from England's Saville Row

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Yes, like the modern suit, and dress shirt, and dress shoes, and just about everything that is today an element of business wear, they originated in Savile Row.  (The Japanese word for suit, for instance, is "sebiro".)  Since the modern suit in particular and businesswear in general are now pretty close to universal, it should not be surprising that the rules are as well.  Every rule of etiquette probably has its origin in some regional custom.  So what?  If it goes mainstream and becomes widely accepted, that doesn't make it any less a rule.  In fact, it only strengthens its status.

they are only as useful as the number of people who believe them. I reserve judgment.

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Happily, the rules -- unlike Santa Claus or the Great Pumpkin -- will continue to exist whether David Bresch chooses to believe in them or not.

LAGuy

Oh, my, does it vex some of my esteemed colleagues that I've read these mighty tomes

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No.

I will compile a list sometime so that it may likewise be derided by other forum participants.

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Might I suggest as a very interested lurker in this thread which seems to loftily combine the historic with practical reality, that an appropriate 'sometime' would be right now? Perfect citation is unnecessary; just a quick throwoff of that which you consider superior to the majority of currently accepted authorities would provide a needed justification of your dissident position.

You guys all crack me up. I've never met people who can turn discussion of a black suit into a flame war. LOL.

You guys all crack me up. I've never met people who can turn discussion of a black suit into a flame war. LOL.

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Yeah, it's great to see people argue about such important things.

Agreed Stu. Until now this was a boring thread.

You guys all crack me up. I've never met people who can turn discussion of a black suit into a flame war. LOL.

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Only on Styleforum, you gotta love it.

koji

None of the other books which I did not refer to specifically are of that ilk.

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This is wrong, as I noted above.

All the books of all the authors I referred to specifically, I have read, save a couple of Flussers books which I threw down in frustration and anger partway through them.

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You mentioned four authors, who have written a total of eight books, some unspecified number of which you admit not to have read. The list has 25 entries.  (That's all that Amazon allows, by the way.  If they would permit it, that list would be much, much longer.) As I noted above, three of those books are about nothing but fashion history, two are mostly about fashion history, and 17 discuss fashion history at length.

Oh, my, does it vex some of my esteemed colleagues that I've read these mighty tomes and dare speak out against them?

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Not me.  Everyone knows where I stand on these issues.  I know where a lot of the other regulars stand.  I have no problem with any of it.  More than once I have advised people, especially younger guys, to wear what they like and not be overbothered by the "rules."

What I object to is willful, factual inaccuracy.  Know-nothing know-it-alls (not you.) who assume that if they do not like some rule or tradtion, then it must not be a rule or a tradition, are begging to be refuted.

My opinions stand.

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As well they should, and you have every right to them.

And anyone who is going to defend Flusser's appearance on his jacket covers merits jeers of derision.

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I'll defend the clothes, but not the hair.  What's wrong with the clothes?

You guys all crack me up. I've never met people who can turn discussion of a black suit into a flame war. LOL.

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Hey, this ain't no flame war. It's a reasoned, high-minded debate. Well, most of it, anyway ...

I can't decide which is worse: a discussion about black suits blowing up into a war of words across much broader sartorial subjects, or the fact that I have loved reading every word on this 9 page thread.

Oh, and I got to say this: I find it ironic that David Bresch, who posts picture after picture of himself sporting his latest tailored item and asking for advice about fit, color, etc. is the guy talking about the unimportance of "rules" and sartorial norms. (don't start yelling at me, Bresch).

Know-nothing know-it-alls (not you.) who assume that if they do not like some rule or tradtion, then it must not be a rule or a tradition, are begging to be refuted.

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If anyone wants to move to a place without any rules or traditions with regards to black suits, come to Asia.

Just for reference, I believe this is the jacket cover in question? http://www.amazon.com/gp....er-page