Jil Sander Sartorial (MTM)

Originally Posted by LabelKing

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I remember San Francisco had a Jil Sander store on Maiden Lane. You had to ring in to be let in, and was known for Andover Shop-like service.

Too bad it closed. Now Saks is the only store in SF that carries Jil, and it's one of their best sellers in the designer section. I have no idea why Barney's decided not to carry Jil in their SF store.

Hey SoCal, what is the new NYC Jil store like? Is it smaller than the old location?

Originally Posted by LabelKing

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I remember San Francisco had a Jil Sander store on Maiden Lane. You had to ring in to be let in, and was known for Andover Shop-like service.
Sounds like the Lobb store on Madison in NY. Although the service there is acceptable.

Yes the new Jil Sander store in NY is temporarily on Madison Ave btwn. 79th/80th so it is kind of a trek up. It is much smaller, two small floors, not the greatest in terms of design; but, that isn't suprising for a temp. space.
By next summer or sooner they are set to open up 2 NY locations. One uptown for the "classic" customer with the Sartorial serivce, regular suits and a more toned down selection and the downtown store that will have all of the runway stuff and basics.

As per door bells...basically any store that doesn't want to pay for a doorman/security guard uses that as an alternative.

Originally Posted by SoCal2NYC

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Did you have the blue or the grey? The grey would have been great if it wasn't such a loud (meaning that you actually hear it) jacket since the subtle grid on it looked awesome. However, a physically loud jacket needs a visually loud color.

The blue. I agree with the sound, and I certainly got looked at strangely (although I suspect the sound wasn't the only reason for that). I only ever wore it once for a quick errand, and then realised that I knew some people who would appreciate it much more than I would: at that time it seemed that I'd put it into my closet and never wear it again.

Now, I regret giving it away, but it was a friend's birthday present, so I can't reasonably demand it back. Anyway; I didn't have to pay for it in the first place, so it's not too terrible.

Originally Posted by Connemara

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Sounds like the Lobb store on Madison in NY. Although the service there is acceptable.

I've had nothing but exceptional service at the Lobb boutique. Rafael (sp?) is always extremely helpful and patient, and a female sales associate once spent more than half-an-hour trying to help me come up with a gift for my fiancee (she even called ahead to Lorio Piana to let her friend there know I was coming).

Older JS suits are definitely better made than new ones. You can tell them apart by looking at the buttons. Older suits also have four buttons on the sleeves and are a bit more relaxed fit than recent suits. All in all, I would say there is no such thing as a "Jil Sander" silhouette anymore as what Jil did a few years ago is not what Raf is doing now.
I don't know how they were made, but older JS suits are lightweight, soft and a pleasure to wear.

!luc

Give the guy (SoCal) a break!

As far as I'm concerned if one can get something OTR or MTM & his happy/comfortable with the fit then there is no need for bespoke.

Hell, I got into the whole Brioni/Carusso/conelliani (& what ever finishes with a "i" etc.)

But now I love how I can walk into an Armani store & walk out with an OTR suit PRONTO!

I love how you get all the negative posters - yet they are never featured in WAYWT..

Love your style & appreciate your enthusiasm SoCal!

End of minor RANT.

Originally Posted by dopey

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I agree with the principle you are articulating here and in your, earlier, sarcastic but related post. Nevertheless, that is only in principle. In reality, I find that there is very little in the way of art or even value in the vision of most menswear designers. At least not for me. For the most part, I see them simply as merchants churning product and as not much different from the teams at P&G working on new toothpaste flavors. There just aint much going on, and if you took away the flash and sizzle, there would be nothing at all to pay attention to. But if SoCal (or you) likes it, that's fine with me. I was only suggesting he try bespoke also (and if he does, he shouldn't bother with trying to get a trendy suit made - for that he should stick to trendy labels).

I agree with pretty much everything that you've said (including trying bespoke, at the very least for the different experience), however the handful of well-known and more niche designers that present works worthy of consideration are enough to sustain my interest in the field.

Originally Posted by Fuuma

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I agree with pretty much everything that you’ve said (including trying bespoke, at the very least for the different experience), however the handful of well-known and more niche designers that present works worthy of consideration are enough to sustain my interest in the field.
Out of curiosity - which designers do you find interesting and what about them do you like? My tastes are likely different from yours, but I am certainly interested in what you think. Most of my shirts, suits and sportcoats are not RTW, but to the extent I look for brand labels, it is with an interest in labels with a focus on delivering the best made version of a classic design (not, putting a "twist" on a classic, or their "takeoff" on a classic or a "reaction to" or, worst of all, entering into a "dialog" with a classic) or labels that just know what they do and do it well. Examples for me would be brands like Charvet for ties and silks (and even Pucci), Pantharella and Missoni for socks, Brooks Brothers for OCBDs, Malo for simple sweaters, etc. In theory, I would like Flusser, and I have been impressed by what I have seen in his shop when visiting with others, but I have never bought anything there.

Originally Posted by LabelKing

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For that sort of price, I want it my way, not Jil Sander's cut.

Paying large sums of money for things being done to you THEIR-way is a bit masochistic, isn't it?

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

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Paying large sums of money for things being done to you THEIR-way is a bit masochistic, isn't it?

I don't see the distinction that's being drawn between this and going to, say, Huntsman or A&S. Presumably you'd pick a tailor who works in a style similar to what you want, right?

Originally Posted by dkzzzz

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Paying large sums of money for things being done to you THEIR-way is a bit masochistic, isn't it?
Know of any decent tailors / designers out there that will do a suit your way?

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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I don't see the distinction that's being drawn between this and going to, say, Huntsman or A&S. Presumably you'd pick a tailor who works in a style similar to what you want, right?

If you have a particular force of character, you can make the tailors do it your way--look at Bunny Roger's idiosyncratic wardrobe.

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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I don't see the distinction that's being drawn between this and going to, say, Huntsman or A&S. Presumably you'd pick a tailor who works in a style similar to what you want, right?

I think the important difference between a good bespoke tailor and a fashion label is that a bespoke tailor can accommodate the wearer's personality and style more readily than OTR, modulo house style. With a fashion label, you're forced to take what's available and hope that you can find something that expresses what you want to express.

Bespoke allows you to partly mold the product to your tastes, while OTR fashion labels force you to adapt to their styles.

--Andre

But no one makes you buy bespoke and no one makes you buy OTR designer clothing.

I don't understand why people fuss about someone liking a "mold" than has already been created over the guise that you are creating a "mold" (when really...you're wearing a basic suit and aren't some new creative force no matter how much you spend or where you go).