"english" styled suits hit the mall

Nick M · Aug 17, 2004

Tacky.

Hell, I'd wear it. I have no problem with this trend. Most people are going to ignore it anyway - it's too much work.

Congratulations gentlemen, you have just taken part in a wonderful marketing experiment.

Yes, the whole RLPL/'sartorial' movement is largely a fictitious history to get people to throw out their old clothes and buy new ones, but so what? The clothing of the 1930s, to me, looked nice. The English-style suit, again, to me, looks nice - whether it's a product of history or the figment of a modern designer's imagination. I find it a flattering cut, and so I might buy a few examples of it. I won't throw out my entire wardrobe in favor of it, but I can find some room for it, certainly. If a clothing manufacturer makes clothes that you like, and that are flattering on you, you can hardly be said to be sucked into the marketing hype. If something plainly looks stupid on me, I'm not going to wear it simply because it's in. And besides, did your PDC jeans come in an absolutely pristine dark blue wash? Did you have to wear them for 2 years to get that '2-year' look? No, they came off the hanger that way, because some marketing whiz knew they'd sell more if they looked 'authentic'.. If the English-suit guys are the victim of a marketing experiment, then you are too, surely?

A Harris · Aug 18, 2004

If a clothing manufacturer makes clothes that you like, and that are flattering on you, you can hardly be said to be sucked into the marketing hype. If something plainly looks stupid on me, I'm not going to wear it simply because it's in.

Well said. Though I think LA Guy will agree with us on this score.

Alias · Aug 18, 2004

Quote:

(LabelKing @ 17 Aug. 2004, 6:46) Tacky.
Hell, I'd wear it.
So would I. It looks like he's doing everything right in that photo. Hell, even his jacket sleeves don't look too long, a rarity these days.

Mike C. · Aug 18, 2004

I'd like to see Banana Republic start selling optional waistcoats (and bowler hats) with their suit separates. Imagine your average downtown street populated with little imitation London Bankers instead of the ubiquitous hip-hopsters who currently occupy every street corner.

I would never sell. The BR customer is someone who does not like to take fashion risks. They like watered down versions of existing trends, without looking to risque.

In order for the any type of headwear other than a trucker cap to come back in vogue, it would have to start at the high-end of fashion.

A Harris · Aug 18, 2004

About P Diddy, the jacket looks pretty good, but that vest is way too high.

LabelKing · Aug 18, 2004

What I meant was his contrived attempts at a sort of dandyish attitude.

I would believe that this sort of wardrobe change was inspired by that Bentley man with the umbrellas.

Besides, that waist needs much more supression, and the armholes aren't high enough. In my opinion.

I do think he has a pocket watch in the breast pocket.

Keith T · Aug 18, 2004

I am for this trend in general...anything that gets more men in suits is a good thing (the 70's rage for leisure suits excepted). Â The "Anglophile look" becoming more widely available is not to be feared for this reason; it should also serve as an introduction for many in the younger set to some of the more subtle details that can make a suit more interesting. Â I would imagine that when many BR customers think of a suit, they think of the American sack--they find it dull, not attractive, and therefore would not consider themselves "suit wearers". Â Nothing to aspire to.

The differences in cut, in the pockets, the vents, lapels might grab the interest of some of these fellows and lead to some converts. Â I say it's all good.

As for the garb of Mr. Combs, I agree... Â

Â Â

Besides, that waist needs much more supression, and the armholes aren't high enough. In my opinion.

..but I personally feel this very strange, very strong compulsion to comment on his pocket square, which I just find to be just a little bit too...puffy.

Stop groaning. Â Somebody had to say it.

bslo · Aug 18, 2004

I don't understand how you can tell from the photo that Diddy's armholes are not cut high enough or that there is not enough waist suppression. Care to elaborate?

imageWIS · Aug 18, 2004

Regardless of how nice it looks though, the suit is still probably of craptacular quality.

craptacular: hahahahahaha.

Jon.

YoungFogey · Aug 18, 2004

I was simultaneously chuffed and annoyed that this appeared on the first day out for my new montecristi: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/17/fashion/17DRES.html That seems to express the ambivalent feelings on this thread.

LA Guy · Aug 18, 2004

And besides, did your PDC jeans come in an absolutely pristine dark blue wash? Did you have to wear them for 2 years to get that '2-year' look? No, they came off the hanger that way, because some marketing whiz knew they'd sell more if they looked 'authentic'.. If the English-suit guys are the victim of a marketing experiment, then you are too, surely?

No. Â I do try to buy the simpler washes in any case and refuse to buy jeans with actual pre-fabricated holes in them, but not because I have an aversion to trendiness. Â I do the former because I find that simple styled jeans are more versatile and don't do the latter because I wear my jeans hard, and the holes are come by honestly (I have never deliberated distressed jeans just for that reason. Â A couple of months of hardwearing usually do the trick.) Â I also like pristine blue jeans - for that I go to A.P.C.

I have a strong sense of personal style, and because of that, have no problem incorporating trendy things into my wardrobe when and if they appeal to me. Â What I object to is people (including people on this forum) who insist that they are not at all influenced by marketing, that their tastes were essentially developed in vacuo, or by their independent discovery of Cary Grant, the Rat Pack, whatever, when I know perfectly well that the fashion industry has been instrumental in bringing these influences and images back into the public's consciousness.

BTW, I was wearing PDC jeans from the very beginning (my first pair was of a cut that would eventually become the current LTD cut - the denim was terrific, and there was no distressing at all on them), when they were just developing their cuts (some of them would seem awfully high rise in the current climate,) when the tag was in a different font and on a satin rather than coated paper strip, and before the J-stitching was conceived. Â And I am currently wearing one of the very first pair of Seven jeans for men produced, so I think that I can safely say that I am generally a trend leader, rather than a trend follower.

Brian SD · Aug 18, 2004

What I object to is people (including people on this forum) who insist that they are not at all influenced by marketing, that their tastes were essentially developed in vacuo, or by their independent discovery of Cary Grant, the Rat Pack, whatever, when I know perfectly well that the fashion industry has been instrumental in bringing these influences and images back into the public's consciousness.

LA Guy, I could see your point perfectly if I had noticed any of these claims that people on this forum gloat about personally acquiring style from said influences prior to the fashion industry's exposure of them. I honestly don't see it. Your overall statement is inarguable, and is easily understood to me by relating to music trends (everyone screaming that they loved Gang of Four before dance punk was cool), but as I said, I just don't see that sort of self-righteousness on this forum. I mean, no one ever posted, "I practically invented the British suit, and now BR is tainting my discovery," or anything near that effect.

LA Guy · Aug 18, 2004

LA Guy, I could see your point perfectly if I had noticed any of these claims that people on this forum gloat about personally acquiring style from said influences prior to the fashion industry's exposure of them. I honestly don't see it.

I've never seen any post stating that explicitly, but I have noticed a lot of posts using catchphrases like "classic style" and "timeless design" that I'm not sure many realize have actually been tossed out there by fashion editors. Often in the same posts (or in different posts by the same authors,) I've noticed disparagements of what is perceived to be trendiness. I think that it behooves us to acknowledge how powerful marketing forces are, and to realize that no-one is really immune. Unless you genuinely don't care, and there is no one here that doesn't, you are buying into some form of lifestyle marketing, and it would be nice if there was a general agreement on that point, just so we can put the "classic vs. trendy" argument, and all the myths surrounding it, to rest.

Rant finished. I promise.

Brian SD · Aug 18, 2004

Quote:

LA Guy, I could see your point perfectly if I had noticed any of these claims that people on this forum gloat about personally acquiring style from said influences prior to the fashion industry's exposure of them. I honestly don't see it.
I've never seen any post stating that explicitly, but I have noticed a lot of posts using catchphrases like "classic style" and "timeless design" that I'm not sure many realize have actually been tossed out there by fashion editors. Â Often in the same posts (or in different posts by the same authors,) I've noticed disparagements of what is perceived to be trendiness. Â I think that it behooves us to acknowledge how powerful marketing forces are, and to realize that no-one is really immune. Â Unless you genuinely don't care, and there is no one here that doesn't, you are buying into some form of lifestyle marketing, and it would be nice if there was a general agreement on that point, just so we can put the "classic vs. trendy" argument, and all the myths surrounding it, to rest. Rant finished. Â I promise.
Like I edited (possibly while you were typing your response), I think your point is inarguable, and that everyone is affected by whom they see, be it in movies, commercials or on the street, and that it is the desire to obtain that lifestyle that drives people to reshape their style. This includes fashion icons that represent the "classic, timeless style," that you pointed out to be a trend, which I agree completely with. A few weeks ago the college newspaper posted results of a survey of the current generation of middle school kids, which showed a stunning amount of apathy and depression amongst the current generation. SDSU so cleverly labelled them generation "don't care." While mostly everyone would say that the war, famine and overall disfunction of the current world is at fault, I think it is mostly a swell in a marketing trend. It's the pouty, depressed, and scantily clad Abercrombie models and other advertisements of similar ilk that glorify a mopey, depressed but extremely *************** lifestyle. It's not like hardships didn't exist in the 50s (slavery?. ) , yet everyone thinks of it as this glowing, perfect age of American History, which I see as a result of marketing and media (during that era as well as current times).

imageWIS · Aug 18, 2004

And besides, did your PDC jeans come in an absolutely pristine dark blue wash? Did you have to wear them for 2 years to get that '2-year' look? No, they came off the hanger that way, because some marketing whiz knew they'd sell more if they looked 'authentic'.. If the English-suit guys are the victim of a marketing experiment, then you are too, surely?

Click to expand...

No. I do try to buy the simpler washes in any case and refuse to buy jeans with actual pre-fabricated holes in them, but not because I have an aversion to trendiness. I do the former because I find that simple styled jeans are more versatile and don't do the latter because I wear my jeans hard, and the holes are come by honestly (I have never deliberated distressed jeans just for that reason. A couple of months of hardwearing usually do the trick.) I also like pristine blue jeans - for that I go to A.P.C. I have a strong sense of personal style, and because of that, have no problem incorporating trendy things into my wardrobe when and if they appeal to me. What I object to is people (including people on this forum) who insist that they are not at all influenced by marketing, that their tastes were essentially developed in vacuo, or by their independent discovery of Cary Grant, the Rat Pack, whatever, when I know perfectly well that the fashion industry has been instrumental in bringing these influences and images back into the public's consciousness. BTW, I was wearing PDC jeans from the very beginning (my first pair was of a cut that would eventually become the current LTD cut - the denim was terrific, and there was no distressing at all on them), when they were just developing their cuts (some of them would seem awfully high rise in the current climate,) when the tag was in a different font and on a satin rather than coated paper strip, and before the J-stitching was conceived. And I am currently wearing one of the very first pair of Seven jeans for men produced, so I think that I can safely say that I am generally a trend leader, rather than a trend follower.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with following trends, at least in the theory, but following a trend is just ridiculous and trite. If you combine certain trends that will look and fit well on you, you will in essence, create a new amalgamated trend. Also, I don't think a particular brand necessarily indicates a particular trend. RLPL for example (of which I have bought from almost the creation of the brand) sells several different trends at the same time depending which "collection" the clothing is made for, i.e. the "cruise" RLPL items are designed in a certain way and follow a certain trend, whilst the "sartorial" collection follows a completely different trend. Of course we are all influenced by advertising, only a person residing on the dark side of the moon is not affected in one way or another by advertising. The whole trick is not to allow our wardrobe to be overwhelmed with advertising, with trends, with ill-fitting, poorly made, sartorial nightmares. Jon.

"english" styled suits hit the mall

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