The State of Black Tie: Your Observations

F. Corbera said:

Not even iCarly?

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Last such show I watched was That's So Raven. Apparently Disney has gone considerably downhill since then. But we're not counting Spongebob, right? Even if his DJs leave much to be desired:



But that was then, this is now. But that one guy on the right, his lapels are straight to the point of being Tautz lapels. Intresting, never seen that on a dinner jacket.



Parterre said:

One can dream. I also got butler vibes from that Hickey Freeman rig. But I think the state of black tie is better than I thought when one sees this being worn by characters on a show meant for tweens. Now, I've been wavering on pocket flaps; I am no longer sure whether they belong in the "personal-but-not-my-taste" category with notched lapels or the "incorrect" category with venting. The button stance may be too high, lapels are too narrow for my taste (but I like them very wide, if not abnormally so), they all seem somewhat ill fitting, and the watches are terribly clunky (but I surmise that may be part of the "plot"), but besides that our Nickelodeon friends are dressed quite well:

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I have to be honest, looks better than most of what was at the Academy awards. Other than the ****** clip-on bows.

I wonder how many people even know the most basic of "the rules" anymore... e.g. black/white tie is evening wear. Saw a recent Sunday matinee orchestra/chorus performance... the orchestra was in suits , chorus in black tie , the conductor was in white tie .



Van Veen said:

I wonder how many people even know the most basic of "the rules" anymore... e.g. black/white tie is evening wear. Saw a recent Sunday matinee orchestra/chorus performance... the orchestra was in suits , chorus in black tie , the conductor was in white tie .

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That's better than all of the banners outside the LA philharmonic (or opera, can't remember): they have photos of their musical director in what would be a white tie getup, but with a black tie and waistcoat...

Depending on how you look at it, black waistcoat with a dress suit isn't wholly inappropriate. According to some dress historians, Edward VII when Bertie Prince of Wales started wearing a white waistcoat with his dress suits in place of the then-largely-regnant (1888?) black waistcoat. It was a sort of casualizing or de-solemnizing measure: an Edwardian rebellion against Victorian solemnity. In a sense, wearing a black WC with a dress suit is just returning to that solemnity.

Of course, you could also say that Bertie was just returning to tradition, since white, ivory, cream, stone, and yellow-buff waistcoats had been quite normal with full-dress evening attire until 1830 or so.

As for black ties with full evening dress, they were still worn in the 1870s. Sator's picture linked here (scroll to the bottom) is from the 1870s.

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, a non-clergyman's wearing a black tie where white ties were expected was often interpreted as expressing dissasfaction with the power structure and sympathy with those at the bottom of it. In 2012, it's anyone's guess as to what its political overtones are.



Testudo_Aubreii said:

In the 19th and early 20th centuries, a non-clergyman's wearing a black tie where white ties were expected was often interpreted as expressing dissasfaction with the power structure and sympathy with those at the bottom of it. In 2012, it's anyone's guess as to what its political overtones are.

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Like when in business school I'd show up to recruiting events in jeans

Cummerbund innovation? At which point do quirks go from playful to disrespectful to ridiculous?

Beautiful woman.



patrickBOOTH said:

Beautiful woman.

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bourbonbasted said:

Cummerbund innovation? At which point do quirks go from playful to disrespectful to ridiculous?

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He is wearing a sash. It is archaic, but that's how the cummerbund came to be. English officers, perhaps because of the infernal Indian heat, or perhaps because of their penchant for going native, replaced their semi-formal waistcoats for black tie with an Indian sash called a kamarband. The cummberbund is the abstraction of the sash, which is more usually worn recently with a smoking jacket (I've only seen two dudes do this my entire life, though.)

I like the sash. It's jaunty in that Fred-Astaire-tie-as-belt kind of way.

Also, F. Corb, I'm constantly impressed with your nuggets of sartorial trivia.



F. Corbera said:

He is wearing a sash. It is archaic, but that's how the cummerbund came to be. English officers, perhaps because of the infernal Indian heat, or perhaps because of their penchant for going native, replaced their semi-formal waistcoats for black tie with an Indian sash called a kamarband. The cummberbund is the abstraction of the sash, which is more usually worn recently with a smoking jacket (I've only seen two dudes do this my entire life, though.)

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Where does one purchase a sash these days?

It's a length of fabric which you can pick most anywhere, but: http://www.japanesestyle.com/obi-belt

I wish that sash was higher up but it seems to have slipped down. As has his companion's mood.

lefty



bourbonbasted said:

Cummerbund innovation? At which point do quirks go from playful to disrespectful to ridiculous?

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He doesn't look very good, but mostly because he's so disheveled/nothing fits/he's using an ordinary white button-front shirt. The sash in and of itself could look quite elegant on the right guy (hint hint: wearing the sash, not the sash wearing him), wearing the right suit.



F. Corbera said:

He is wearing a sash. It is archaic, but that's how the cummerbund came to be. English officers, perhaps because of the infernal Indian heat, or perhaps because of their penchant for going native, replaced their semi-formal waistcoats for black tie with an Indian sash called a kamarband. The cummberbund is the abstraction of the sash, which is more usually worn recently with a smoking jacket (I've only seen two dudes do this my entire life, though.)

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Thanks for the insight, B. I really do wonder, however, if he had any idea what he is (paying homage to?) channeling when he put the sash on. Perhaps he just thought it an interesting dash of panache? As other posters have mentioned it accompanies a rather disheveled ensemble. Then again, his Godfather is Prince Albert, so I suppose anything is possible...