shoe construction...behind the veil



T4phage said:

dunno...

what i was told
was it looked
like premade
soles for
blake stitched
shoes

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Well, I dunno what a bespoke maker woud be doing with them but if they are pre-formed / pre-made they're not bespoke, by definition.



DWFII said:

Well, I dunno what a bespoke maker woud be doing with them but if they are pre-formed / pre-made they're not bespoke, by definition.

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For trial fitting shoes?

You still have the fact that if they are pre-made or pre-formed they are made for a statistically average size / shape foot. That's not bespoke.

I have to say I enjoy threads like these as I've learned a bit more about shoes since reading them. I wanted to make a comment or two about what was mentioned earlier as to why some people may still chose to buy GYW shoes when there are better shoes available.

I agree that knowledge is an important reason why people chose to buy a GYW shoes. The fact is GYW shoes are fairly prevalent and most of what I read previously where only positive comments. So unless you really dig you just don't find that many negative comments. Frankly the only place I've even seen gemming mentioned was here and I never figured that I would only be able to get my GYW shoe re-soled 2 or 3 times.

So I completely agree that knowledge is important and knowledge is power, but how a shoe is constructed isn't the only consideration when someone buys a shoe. I think If this where the only consideration then you would have more people buying hand welted shoes. The fact of the matter is there are more reasons why people chose to buy GYW shoes.

Access is an extremely important consideration. What's available, where is it, and how do I get it. Although there are some shoemakers and some places where you can get hand welted shoes there aren't that many. Even with the internet GYW shoes are much more accessible than hand welted shoes.

GYW shoes are more popular than hand welted shoes. Popularity isn't necessary but it certainly makes it easier. When something's popular you certainly have more people to draw on for experience in regards to looks and fit. When you go out of the mainstream this requires a lot more work and more uncertainty on your end. Popularity isn't necessarily always a bad thing.

Design is extremely important to a majority of us. If this weren't the case then we would all probably wear the same exact model of shoe. Just because it's constructed better or worse doesn't mean it's appealing to the eye. In this regard though I think the manufactures that produce more shoes tend to have the jump on those who do not. I'm not saying all hand welted shoes aren't appealing, but I am saying the bigger GYW shoemakers have more resources to draw from.

All I'm saying is that the fact that something is constructed better than something else is not always the bottom line. There are other considerations. Besides for some of us just because the shoe isn't built better doesn't mean it won't serve it's purpose.



dddrees said:

I have to say I enjoy threads like these as I've learned a bit more about shoes since reading them. I wanted to make a comment or two about what was mentioned earlier as to why some people may still chose to buy GYW shoes when there are better shoes available.

...

All I'm saying is that the fact that something is constructed better than something else is not always the bottom line. There are other considerations. Besides for some of us just because the shoe isn't built better doesn't mean it won't serve it's purpose.

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I appreciate that...I always have, no matter who said it.

That said, sometimes I think the issue comes down to how folks see or use SF. If a person approaches SF as a consumer, it may be a bit disconcerting to think that they've made a purchase unwisely or been taken in by advertising hype.

But the threads I've started and the ones I participate in...for the most part...tend to be ones that take another approach--objective analysis. The buying and the selling and the rankings in the fashion world...and specifically, the justifications for making such decisions...are beside the point in a thread such as this one.

None of us will ever be able to resolve any aspect of our differences in this regard and so we are reduced to show and tell and bragging to some degree or another. Maybe even feeling superior (or not) to others because we spent "X" number of exorbitant dollars on a pair of shoes or because the brand name is recognized world wide.

And I wouldn't want to deprive anyone of such feelings. That's why I try to brings things back around to the objective merits of techniques and materials, as much as I can...in the threads I regularly contribute to.

But again, it's kind of beside the point, isn't it? Yes, a shoe incorporating intentional (or not) obsolescence will serve its purpose...sometimes admirably....but then, so will particle board furniture. At which point, we're not talking style or quality or even elegance. We're talking "utility" at that point.

And then it's an entirely different discussion. I just don't see any purpose in confusing or conflating the two.



DWFII said:

No idea. I can't even guess from the photos. Obviously meant for the bottom of a shoe, but...outsoles?? insoles?? who knows?

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i found it:

if you fast forward
to 0.57s onwards

a lot of these
machines are
made in vigevano
teh centre of
technological advances
in shoemaking
machinery



T4phage said:

i found it:

if you fast forward
to 0.57s onwards

a lot of these
machines are
made in vigevano
teh centre of
technological advances
in shoemaking
machinery

Click to expand...

Yes, it looks like an outsole that will be Blaked to the bottom of a shoe--I'm guessing...I readily admit it--this is not my forte...but the machine is obviously routing out the leather to allow the shoe to fit in the resulting cavity and making faux stitches in the waist area.

But I thought you said these were for bespoke work.

??

If they are, where is the foot? Where is the individualized last? Where is that oddly shaped shoe that is accommodating an oddly shaped foot...as bespoke is meant to do?



DWFII said:

Yes, it looks like an outsole that will be Blaked to the bottom of a shoe--I'm guessing...I readily admit it--this is not my forte...but the machine is obviously routing out the leather to allow the shoe to fit in the resulting cavity and making faux stitches in the waist area.

But I thought you said these were for bespoke work.

??

If they are, where is the foot? Where is the individualized last? Where is that oddly shaped shoe that is accommodating an oddly shaped foot...as bespoke is meant to do?

Click to expand...

that is what
i was hoping
you could
help with...



T4phage said:

that is what
i was hoping
you could
help with...

Click to expand...

I can't see how it would or could have any connection to bespoke work. Assembly lines seldom do--it's almost a contradiction in terms.



DWFII said:

I can't see how it would or could have any connection to bespoke work. Assembly lines seldom do--it's almost a contradiction in terms.

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not necessarily.

If there can be some 3D representation of a foot it can be done.

Not likely to happen but it's possible.



hendrix said:

not necessarily.

If there can be some 3D representation of a foot it can be done.

Not likely to happen but it's possible.

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So...how many outsoles did the machine make in three (?) minutes? Is that one machine dedicated to making shoes (perhaps a lifetime supply all in one style and maybe even one colour) for that one customer?



hendrix said:

not necessarily.

If there can be some 3D representation of a foot it can be done.

Not likely to happen but it's possible.

Click to expand...

Would be difficult with 3D models alone. Probably need a CT scan.

unlike suits, which drapes on bodies with some reinforcements, shoes turn feet into another shape without applying pain.

DWFII said:

So...how many outsoles did the machine make in three (?) minutes? Is that one machine dedicated to making shoes (perhaps a lifetime supply all in one style and maybe even one colour) for that one customer?

Click to expand...

chogall said:

Would be difficult with 3D models alone. Probably need a CT scan.

unlike suits, which drapes on bodies with some reinforcements, shoes turn feet into another shape without applying pain.

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If one use a scanner to make a last, I'd actually encourage that, but the cost is crazy.

Aye, lads, but you're all missing the point.

So you've got a bespoke last...regardless of how it was achieved. Now what?! Go back and read post #371.

That's the whole point and design intent...and the critical difference...of the assembly line model. It makes endless identical copies of one thing. Endlessly, ad infinitum. And in a very real sense, ticky-tacky.

That's not bespoke. Period.

It has no application in bespoke work. IMO.

-



traverscao said:

If one use a scanner to make a last, I'd actually encourage that, but the cost is crazy.

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The foot is not static. It is one of the most architecturally complex forms in nature. It constantly changes shape and even dimension.

And a properly fit shoe doesn't just sit on top of the skin like a leaf floating in a pond. In some places the flesh needs to be compressed a little. In some places given its ease. Sometimes the pooling of blood in the foot needs to be accounted for. In most cases the fact that some feet are rigid and some are flaccid needs to be factored in.

A scanner will do none of this.