BMW 1M -- I want!!!

Originally Posted by gnatty8

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I don't relish arguing with people who have a tendency to be derogatory, so I will either put you on ignore; which is rare for me, you'd be the first, or I will stop reading your posts. Your tendency to employ childish, schoolyard taunts like "get it" are endearing, but a little too immature for me. Arguing that the 135i is in the same class as the M3 is inane. If you go for the 1M, I am sure you will enjoy it.
"Derogatory"? WTF. You're the one who continues insisting that the M3/3-series must be better-performing than the 1M/1-series, that the only benefit of the latter is that it's cheaper, that it is simply insane to compare the two, etc., etc.--without even a hint of hard data or information to support your opinions. Moreover, you haven't responded to any of the objective information or reasoning that's been presented to you. You even dismissed the significance of torque in determining vehicle performance! It seems to me that you simply can't wrap your mind around the fact that a manufacturer might make a smaller, cheaper car that matches or exceeds its larger, more expensive cars in performance. But this happens all the time. The 135i already outperforms the 335i--that is the simple truth, and anybody with half-a-brain for understanding the drivers behind automotive performance could have inferred so from the basic facts. Same components, same power, different weight. Which will go faster, the heavier car, or the lighter one? Jeezus. That's not a trick question. You sound like a snob. Dollar signs and model numbers seem to be the sole bases for your analysis. Mind you, that's particularly ridiculous here given the marginal difference in prices. You only save two or three grand going with a 1-series over a 3-series, and both cars stretch well over $50k fully-loaded. Few people who want a 3 will choose a 1 for price alone. By the way, the new 5.0-equipped Mustang GT gives the M3 a run for its money. Take a look at the performance figures. Oh, wait, those don't matter, because it's impossible a stupid Ford could compare with a BMW--they're not in the same "class," after all.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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x 2 --get it? Get it?

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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"Derogatory"? WTF.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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"Derogatory"? WTF. You're the one who continues insisting that the M3/3-series must be better-performing than the 1M/1-series, that the only benefit of the latter is that it's cheaper, that it is simply insane to compare the two, etc., etc.--without even a hint of hard data or information to support your opinions. Moreover, you haven't responded to any of the objective information or reasoning that's been presented to you. You even dismissed the significance of torque in determining vehicle performance! It seems to me that you simply can't wrap your mind around the fact that a manufacturer might make a smaller, cheaper car that matches or exceeds its larger, more expensive cars in performance. But this happens all the time. The 135i already outperforms the 335i--that is the simple truth, and anybody with half-a-brain for understanding the drivers behind automotive performance could have inferred so from the basic facts. Same components, same power, different weight. Which will go faster, the heavier car, or the lighter one? Jeezus. That's not a trick question. You sound like a snob. Dollar signs and model numbers seem to be the sole bases for your analysis. Mind you, that's particularly ridiculous here given the marginal difference in prices. You only save two or three grand going with a 1-series over a 3-series, and both cars stretch well over $50k fully-loaded. Few people who want a 3 will choose a 1 for price alone. By the way, the new 5.0-equipped Mustang GT gives the M3 a run for its money. Take a look at the performance figures. Oh, wait, those don't matter, because it's impossible a stupid Ford could compare with a BMW--they're not in the same "class," after all.
Thanks, I appreciate you explaining all of that to me..

I was driving down the FDR today. Those potholes are HUGE! If you get a car in NYC get the tire and rim insurance. It'll pay for itself. Stiff suspension and NYC roads hurts my back just thinking about it.

The stick shift is nice theoretically. But have you driven in NY traffic? Radio said it was 90 minutes crossing the GWB today and it's only Sunday!

Originally Posted by Szeph el ratón

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Typical for new pre-release cars on test drives. It's done so it's harder to see the lines and proportions. Alternative is fake body kits to obscure the lines.
Thank you. Just out of curiosity, why not cover the whole car with that swirly ****? Just the bottom half seems odd.

Originally Posted by Rambo

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Thank you. Just out of curiosity, why not cover the whole car with that swirly ****? Just the bottom half seems odd.

because the parts they leave uncovered are already known pieces from the base model, and they're just hiding the forthcoming aero kit that will be different.

Originally Posted by impolyt_one

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because the parts they leave uncovered are already known pieces from the base model, and they're just hiding the forthcoming aero kit that will be different.
Interesting. Thanks for the explanation.

Originally Posted by mafoofan

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By the way, the new 5.0-equipped Mustang GT gives the M3 a run for its money.

Pros/Cons of 1M, that I am seeing:

Pros:
-quick
-it's like a B-side version of the old $45K 6cyl M3 that the new $60K V8 M3 didn't want to be
-it's a BMW, so at least you get your 4 or 5 free oil changes and wiper blades on warranty
-'practical'... in some sense.

Cons:
-It's gonna overheat too much.
-It's ugly
-it's quick, but it's not a true sports car, and it doesn't have much more utility than many other 2+2's on the market - you can't tell me that the 1M is going to be any more useful than something like a 370Z, even the Hyundai coupe, both of which would deliver a somewhat similar performance envelope at a much lower price
-This car plays to this fairly recent trend of everybody on the internatz thinking they need a 'genuine M car' for doing such things as daily driving (which is 100%).. specifically, driving at 2/10ths to from your cul de sac to Buffalo Wild Wings on Tuesdays.
-It's gonna overheat too much.
-as above, yes, it's a fast daily driver... but dare I say it's too powerful for things like driving schools and open track days on small tracks? I'd rather spend a driving school caning a rental Neon with a stick at 8/10ths, rather than overheating my $45K 350hp paddleshift BMW that I have to drive to work on Monday. And on the flipside, what really experienced driver would actually choose a 1M over an E92 M3?
-$45K is a lot of money man, and it's going to have a fairly high operating cost for a daily driver.

^ are there actual track stats/reviews of the 1M yet? because i have a feeling it might actually be great, but still look like a bulldog.

maybe they strip down the whole car further to a GT3 type of thing where its just a bare bones fun racer thats road legal.

i do hate the logic of stripping down a car (even its practicality as a normal road car) and then charging more though...

also, I forgot, the one huge reason why this car is disinteresting to me and loses immediately to the M3: it's probably not going to have ITB's if it's really just a modified 135i engine. That nice low-end metallic coo that crescendos to the high end ITB wail on an S54 or any of the newer M V8's and V10's, that sound just isn't going to be coming from the cheaper 1M; it'll probably be a situation similar to the E36 M3s in the US, when they couldn't afford to bring ITB's to the US-spec S50/S52 and keep the car at $34,995 (yes, the E36 M3 was <$35K when it came out)... and to me, while many things about M cars change with each generation, including the number of cylinders and doors, that trademark M car ITB'd sound is something that has always been there since the M1 and will probably continue... with the couple cheap aberrations, like the US-spec E36, as mentioned, and now this 1M....

The 1M will have its buyers, yes, there are people who will choose it over the E92 m3. As for me, I will choose neither simply because of the looks first and foremost and also because these cars are too reliant on high tech electronics. I still can't get over the idea of no " dip stick". I drive an E46 and have bought two since it's inception and have decided to buy a ZCP in 2 years when I graduate college. In addition, these new BMW's seems like they won't age well, my jet black E46 sedan with Mtech II kit and BBS LM's still get compliments everywhere I go. People who aren't in the know mistake it for a current model bimmer, which is a testament to how wonderful the design is even today. Despite all this, I believe there will be a huge fan club for the 1M. Enthusiasts have been bitching all along for a car just like this.....these same people were the ones who detest the E46 M3. You know the people who keep buying E30's not because that's all they can afford but because that is the car they like....some people prefer simplicity....not everyone gets their panties wet over a new car. As for me, I am beginning to take the same stance as the older folks who were die hard fans of the E30. I don't care for the newer BMW's (except the new 7, which I plan to get in a few years) at all but that does not change the fact that people will keep on buying them and after all that is a good thing.

Originally Posted by impolyt_one

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Pros/Cons of 1M, that I am seeing:


Cons:
-It's gonna overheat too much.

-It's gonna overheat too much.
......

=)
i thought they have redesigned the turbos on that engine (eg the latest 535), so they may have allevieated that problem.

Originally Posted by LawrenceMD

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i do hate the logic of stripping down a car (even its practicality as a normal road car) and then charging more though...

the m3 csl was fun to drive on a cooler day on a smooth road or track
otherwise it was uncomfortable as hell

Originally Posted by rocks

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... I still can't get over the idea of no " dip stick". ....

+ over 9000

the most stupid thing ever

Originally Posted by T4phage

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=)
i thought they have redesigned the turbos on that engine (eg the latest 535), so they may have allevieated that problem.

Even the NA cars (like the 328 and the M3) overheat under hard driving. BMWs have always run hot (perhaps for better efficiency and emissions), but it's kind of caught up to them now.

+ over 9000

the most stupid thing ever

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Porsches haven't had dipsticks in years.

--Andre

Originally Posted by A Y

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Even the NA cars (like the 328 and the M3) overheat under hard driving. BMWs have always run hot (perhaps for better efficiency and emissions), but it's kind of caught up to them now.
yes, but then again, how many people who purchase that car drive it to it's potential to overheat.
as you mentioned somewhere in the past, most people who owned the older x35s didn't drive hard enough to overheat

Originally Posted by A Y

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Porsches haven't had dipsticks in years.

i still haet the electronic gauge

Originally Posted by T4phage

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yes, but then again, how many people who purchase that car drive it to it's potential to overheat.
as you mentioned somewhere in the past, most people who owned the older x35s didn't drive hard enough to overheat

True, but most people wouldn't overheat their turbos in normal driving, too.

BTW, BMW press person in the latest Roundel calls 128i the purest driving experience available in a BMW in North America. I presume that's because the M3 GTS isn't available here.

--Andre

I can see how a 128i stripper with a stick would be the best modern BMW driving experience, and why they'd say that to appeal to BMWCCA'ers - the old guys have always just rented a Dodge Neon with a stick for CCA school weekends and just wringed the **** out of them all weekend, before dropping off the keys, and have left their M3's and M5's at home. A 128i would be a great stand-in for the cheap little car that you can get 8, 9, or 10/10ths out of reasonably safely, without getting too hot on a small track - 330hp or whatever this 1M will be, would get most people into way too much trouble, way too quickly.