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Sartorial mythbusting - Page 108

post #1606 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Despos View Post
The English own this mode of construction, for sure!

Little known fact: back in its hey day, Huntsman would have trouser makers of different sizes...height and weight...and the tailor who would sew your trousers would be your doppelganger so that he could try on while sewing. Let me repeat that: so that he could try on while sewing.

This was a very expensive mode of production.

Don't even get me started on what they did for clients who had full beards.


- B
post #1607 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
Teehee. Then you don't want to know the results of the blind tests they did with their midrange Revels against the WATT/Puppies.

But it sounds like you have a very nice system no matter what your audio belief system. Hope you enjoy it for many years to come.

--Andre

I have no audio beliefs, only quaint superstitions.


- B
post #1608 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
The Revel Ultima2 Salons (along with the other Revels) have their cabinet, and almost all of its drivers manufactured in a Harman-owned plant in China. The tweeter is made by Seas in Denmark, because apparently they make by far the best tweeter motor out there. The cabinet is made in China because the environmental rules of California don't let them make cabinets of comparable finish to what the Chinese can do. And the midrange and woofers are made there with far more consistency than what they could manage in their Northridge plant. The subassemblies are all shipped to Northridge where the speaker's assembled, tested, and shipped out. The crossover is made in California, but its components come from all over the place. Harman apparently take their Chinese concern so seriously that they have built an identical listening room in Shanghai to what they have in Northridge so that they can identify and reproduce any problems they have with their products. The most amazing part is that this is a US$22K/pair speaker that is legitimately counted among the best speakers in the world, and it's mostly Chinese made. Certainly the design and R&D that went into the speaker is responsible for its potential, but the manufacturing then has to consistently realize that potential. --Andre
22 grand a pair, you're gunna need some serious amplification a a top draw source for those. May I suggest this for amplification: http://www.soundscapehifi.com/kondo-ksl-ongaku.htm
post #1609 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
I have no audio beliefs, only quaint superstitions. - B
The legendary Conrad Johnson who are up there in your neck of the woods make magnificent valve amplification' http://www.conradjohnson.com/
post #1610 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
22 grand a pair, you're gunna need some serious amplification a a top draw source for those.

May I suggest this for amplification:

http://www.soundscapehifi.com/kondo-ksl-ongaku.htm

Pairing the most irrational amps ever made with one of the most rational speakers ever designed might cause an explosion of LHC proportions. No doubt Harman would want you to use their megabuck Levinson amps with the Revels, but I think they'll work well enough with much more modest solid state equipment.

The sad thing is that $22K/pair isn't even considered stratospheric anymore.

--Andre
post #1611 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
Pairing the most irrational amps ever made with one of the most rational speakers ever designed might cause an explosion of LHC proportions. No doubt Harman would want you to use their megabuck Levinson amps with the Revels, but I think they'll work well enough with much more modest solid state equipment. The sad thing is that $22K/pair isn't even considered stratospheric anymore. --Andre
You might be surprised. Valve amps can sound very good with digital sources. They soften the top end in my experince which is always a weak area. Old technology working with new. Speakers are the most sensitive of all the components. Paying a lot is no guarantee of good sound. I remember borrowing my late father's Monitor Audio speakers as I was thinking purchasing a pair. They sounded wonderful in his house but dreadful in mine and they were expensive speakers for their day.
post #1612 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by George View Post
You might be surprised.

Valve amps can sound very good with digital sources. They soften the top end in my experince which is always a weak area. Old technology working with new.

Speakers are the most sensitive of all the components. Paying a lot is no guarantee of good sound.

I remember borrowing my late father's Monitor Audio speakers as I was thinking purchasing a pair. They sounded wonderful in his house but dreadful in mine and they were expensive speakers for their day.

In the case of the Monitor Audio speakers, I'd bet that it was an unsympathetic interaction with the room that made them sound bad.

I've heard tubes sound both good and bad, but because of their electrical properties, this is kind of an unpredictable crap shoot that has more to do with the combination of that particular tube amp and speaker than anything else. That's not the way things should be designed, but that's my rationalist geek speaking. The Audio Note devices are also not the best examples of tube design.

I do agree that paying $$$ for speakers doesn't guarantee good sound --- the majority of speakers over $10K prove that. What you generally should get by paying more is lower bass, louder playback capability, and lower non-linear distortion. What should be given at most price points is a flat frequency response, and good off-axis behavior. Most speakers above a certain price point don't give you any of that, and in fact often perform worse cheaper ones. The performance variance amongst high-priced speakers is far bigger than budget speakers.

Of course, once you've spent all that money for a speaker, you can still ruin it by placing it poorly in a room.

--Andre
post #1613 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Y View Post
In the case of the Monitor Audio speakers, I'd bet that it was an unsympathetic interaction with the room that made them sound bad. I've heard tubes sound both good and bad, but because of their electrical properties, this is kind of an unpredictable crap shoot that has more to do with the combination of that particular tube amp and speaker than anything else. That's not the way things should be designed, but that's my rationalist geek speaking. The Audio Note devices are also not the best examples of tube design. I do agree that paying $$$ for speakers doesn't guarantee good sound --- the majority of speakers over $10K prove that. What you generally should get by paying more is lower bass, louder playback capability, and lower non-linear distortion. What should be given at most price points is a flat frequency response, and good off-axis behavior. Most speakers above a certain price point don't give you any of that, and in fact often perform worse cheaper ones. The performance variance amongst high-priced speakers is far bigger than budget speakers. Of course, once you've spent all that money for a speaker, you can still ruin it by placing it poorly in a room. --Andre
A combination of the room's acoustics and unsympathetic amplifier combination I think. MA speakers were notoriously difficult to drive. You needed an amplifier with good current delivery. If you're spending serious dough on a audio system you need to find a dealership who'll allow you to audition the kit at home, it's the only way. I remember hearing the Audio Note amp years ago, sounded very transparent.
post #1614 of 1680
Would you say that you can hear the difference between a $22k system and a $20k, $15k etc. system?

Can it be compared to a $7k suit from tailor X being "superior" than a $5k from tailor Y (using a similar cloth quality)?
Could you really get so much more value for money? Would you notice the extra price if you weren't told before?
post #1615 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by tailorgod View Post
Would you say that you can hear the difference between a $22k system and a $20k, $15k etc. system? Can it be compared to a $7k suit from tailor X being "superior" than a $5k from tailor Y (using a similar cloth quality)? Could you really get so much more value for money? Would you notice the extra price if you weren't told before?
Let us not confuse cost with value...
post #1616 of 1680
In addition to audio, can we please add mechanical watches and transforming toys to this thread?

This should set off the geek-detecting sprinklers in the ceiling, and I would find the resulting panic and chaos in this thread amusing.

Thank you.

- B
post #1617 of 1680
Y'all need balls (see sig).
post #1618 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes Bourne View Post
Y'all need balls (see sig).

Your high-wonk plug almost set off the sprinklers.

- B
post #1619 of 1680
all these pricey speakers are useless without the appropriate styrofoam pedestals for the wires running from them to the amps. You might as well have Radio Shack HTiB speakers.
post #1620 of 1680
Quote:
Originally Posted by voxsartoria View Post
Your high-wonk plug almost set off the sprinklers.

- B

I have zero financial interest in the balls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by edmorel View Post
all these pricey speakers are useless without the appropriate styrofoam pedestals for the wires running from them to the amps. You might as well have Radio Shack HTiB speakers.

Don't forget the balls. (No more plugs after this)
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