Offensively Bold Tailored Clothing

Originally Posted by nioh

Click to expand...

No cufflinks?! Certainly they're a must.
What, in the original photo? There are cufflinks, you just can't see them.

With all due respect Manton I feel you are stepping over the line with your degrading comments about what the man in this photo is wearing. Who are you to humiliate a stranger on any message board let alone one that is supposed to represent the better aspects of society and which I always assumed was populated with gentleman who knew the definition of professionalism? For all you know this man could have some sort of disability; how would you feel then to make fun of what he is wearing in such a mean spirited manner? Considering the state of your suits in the photos you have posted, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if your closet looked as if a bomb was dropped in it.

Originally Posted by Con Biz Dresser

Click to expand...

I wouldn’t be all that surprised if your closet looked as if a bomb was dropped in it.

Ordinance would explain the rumpled shoulders.

K-man, these tutorials are meant to help people learn. I did not think my commentary was nearly so harsh as you made it out to be. But in any case, caustic language is sometimes necessary to get across important truths, and to warn the young away from real danger. Sugar-coating often just gets misunderstood. As you yourself note, the outfit in question is a disaster. We could let it just speak for itself. But I think I am doing a real service by going into detail. Someone who loves conservative business dress as much as you claim to should appreciate any attempt to keep people on the straight and narrow.

BTW, this:

Originally Posted by Con Biz Dresser

Click to expand...

For all you know this man could have some sort of disability

is a stroke of genius. You may be better than Newhart.

It's not shown in the photo, but is the gentlemen in the blue jacket wearing single link cuffs?

Originally Posted by Con Biz Dresser

Click to expand...

Who are you to humiliate a stranger on any message board . . . . For all you know this man could have some sort of disability; how would you feel then to make fun of what he is wearing in such a mean spirited manner?

conservative business dress, I empathize with your concern, however, there's been no critique of the "person." Manton's comments focus solely on the clothes.

You're right that we don't know the person's circumstance; but nor do we need to. His condition/circumstance simply doesn't matter. The commentary is intended to help people understand what elements of dress can work against them in a business environment. Its a lesson you can either try to benefit from -- if taken in the spirit intended -- or turn away from.

In my short time here, Manton's posts have always been lucid, instructive and held (in my estimation) in high regard. His book reaffirms this. I have not known him to be a mean spirited person, and don't believe his comments here suggest otherwise.

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

First and foremost, I have to trot out that old sawhorse, "The Rules." OBTC is not about outrageously flaunting the major rules.


True enough, although might have been more to the point to say "flouting."

Originally Posted by Concordia

Click to expand...

True enough, although might have been more to the point to say "flouting."

Pedant. If you don't have anything to say about the clothes, then STAY OUT OF MY THREADS.

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

Let's call this style, "Plant Bomb in Closet, Scatter Clothes Throughout Room, Collect What is Intact Enough to Be Worn, Get Dressed in Bomb-Shattered Pitch Dark Adjacent Bathroom." Or, PBCSCTRCWIEBWGDBSPBAB for short.

. . . the real crime here is the shirt and tie combination. The shirt is offensive in and of itself; the shirt and tie are ill chosen together; and the combination riots against the jacket and trousers. You'd think a trained shirtmaker would have better instincts for this sort of thing.

Finally, I congratulate the wearer on being the first known person to disprove the maxim that brown suede shoes go with everything.

A masterful deconstruction. Made my morning. Great job Maestro!

So does he in fact have a disability?

OK, let me review and see if I grasp what Maestro Manton is trying to teach:

1) If you like your job and want to be taken seriously at work (e.g., considered for raises and promotions):
a) becareful with what you learn in this forum and others like it and some of our favorite style bibles*, as it can lead you astray into dandified or Euro-flash unemployment.
b) conservative business dress and UCBD is the rule of the day in business: it should be formal, but not overly so (i.e., french cuffs are formal, but too showy); polished, but not overly so (i.e., no artifice); do not look like you put too much tought into your clothing, nor no thought at all"”middle of the road, all the way.
2) stray too far from conservative business dress or UCBD and you will be considered a clown who is more concerned about his clothing than getting the job done.
3) The rules of style are nice, but the rule of business is to the blend in.

I would bet, this advice extends to those of us trapped in business casual hell. If you dress conservative business dress in a BC office, then you will stick out in the same way a dandy would in a conservative business dress office and draw too much negative attention to yourself. Suck it up if you like your job and mothball your suits.

*about those style bibles. While they do seem to mention dandies as something to aspire to, they also speak of not going overboard, of not overdoing it, of moderation. This seems to be one of the messages that the author of the Suit tries to make (saddly, this is also one of the many messages in the book that gets lost on many people due to the artifice of writing in the outmoded style of another"”perhaps the author should have heeded his own advise and that of some many editors and publishers ).

Hmm, it's no wonder that so many Europeans are unemployed.

Originally Posted by odoreater

Click to expand...

Hmm, it's no wonder that so many Europeans are unemployed.

In researching my book, I found that there is hardly any global phenomenon of any importance that can't be illumined by a sartorial explanation.

Originally Posted by Manton

Click to expand...

In researching my book, I found that there is hardly any global phenomenon of any importance that can't be illumined by a sartorial explanation.
Ahhh, It is gems like this, that allow one to realize the limited wisdom of so called gurus like Drucker, Freidman, CP Snow, Kierkegaard etc. -

Originally Posted by Lino

Click to expand...

I would bet, this advice extends to those of us trapped in business casual hell. If you dress conservative business dress in a BC office, then you will stick out in the same way a dandy would in a conservative business dress office and draw too much negative attention to yourself. Suck it up if you like your job and mothball your suits.

I am "trapped" in the very Ninth Rung of business casual hell, where men go to the office dressed as if they were going to work on a roofing crew. This allows me to dress as dandified as I want--without fear of ramifications, since no one else there is remotely qualified to take over my position. In fact, I am envied and esteemed by some who wish they could dress better or by women who wish the other men dressed better. I can have all the fun I want with things like my green blazer, white trousers, specator shoes, white bucks and the like--things that would never be tolerated in conservative business dress or UCBD business environment.

FWIW, my supervisor (an ultra-Trad, BTW) described me as a "real gentleman" on my last review.