Mad Men Season 3 Discussion

Originally Posted by Manton

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Charleston. 1920s. Ragtime is more 1890s-1900s.

The blackface scene struck me as a false note. The least racist whites in the country at that time were elite Northeasterners. Note how at one point they comment about how bad Goldwater would be and they all want Rockefeller for Prez in '64. And these are supposed to be big racists? Not plausible.

Overall, the show continues to go nowhere. Scenes don't add up. Episodes lack any pretense to coherence. And yet I am still watching. Must be Joan.

^ Yes. There is no way any New York elite would put on blackface and sing "My Old Kentucky Home" in 1963. Ruined the whole episode for me.

Also, Pete's dance scene was a big WTF? moment.

Originally Posted by cadillac37

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Also, Pete's dance scene was a big WTF? moment.

Didn't seem out of character. He's always trying too hard, pushing things too far. It looked rehearsed.

Originally Posted by shoreman1782

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Assumed we were supposed to think most people there were uncomfortable, but Roger was the host and got to do what he wanted. Maybe I'm just hoping that was the intent.

Don was the only one who looked uncomfortable, though.

Originally Posted by Albern

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Thanks for the quick history lesson. Your point above got me thinking about the overall progression of the season and the whole show in general. While previous episodes would have a well structured plot that followed from beginning to end, what I especially like about season 3 thus far has been how it is more character-driven rather than plot-driven. In the 3 separate scenes this episode, regardless of what was going on I think what we were seeing as a viewer where various character traits that will be integral in the development of the show.

For example:
- Peggy is starting to develop a wilder persona and is becoming more confident in her abilities to manage and do her job. Interesting conversation with her new secretary too.
- Don's recent (?) attitude towards Roger towards the end of the show especially. I missed exactly why he didn't want to go to that party though.
- Don is clearly still rooted in his past as revealed in the rags to riches story shared by him and the other gentleman behind the bar.
- Pete and his clear connections to old money (I think) as demonstrated by his ability to dance the Charleston; presumably taught in private school. I was wondering how come he and his wife were the only ones who knew the dance.
- Joan's relationship to her douchebag insecure husband and how she is trying to better manage it though compromise.
- Betty's enduring (?) desire to hold her marriage together as demonstrated though her ability to forgive much more readily this time around.

By not having a concise beginning, middle, and end of each episode, I think viewers get to see these characters on a more realistic perspective as we see how they react to their situations.

Of course if I'm wrong than yes, Joan is a good reason to watch this too.

I can see this, I guess. Risky on Weiner's part, but then he is getting all the plaudits, so maybe not.

Originally Posted by Manton

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The blackface scene struck me as a false note. The least racist whites in the country at that time were elite Northeasterners. Note how at one point they comment about how bad Goldwater would be and they all want Rockefeller for Prez in '64. And these are supposed to be big racists? Not plausible.


Or limousine liberals?

I first thought Don was offended by Roger's performance in blackface when he walked away. I thought the writers wanted to make some statement of how Don, an outsider, cares less about a person's background like gender or possibly race and more about competence. The following scene where he's in the bar talking with the old dude about their hardscrabble past would reinforce that theme. But now I think don's contempt was a reflection of his disgust over Roger. He doesn't seem to do anything more at the firm and he's frivolously indulging his young, stupid wife. Plus, Roger sold the firm to the Brits, and Don can no longer control the firm since London makes the final calls, like it did when it dropped Penn Station over Don's efforts. Don isn't about morality, just ambition and self-advancement.

Originally Posted by Manton

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Don was the only one who looked uncomfortable, though.

I felt like at least one other person looked uncomfortable, but I can't remember who it was off the top of my head. Maybe Harry?

Originally Posted by Albern

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- Peggy is starting to develop a wilder persona and is becoming more confident in her abilities to manage and do her job. Interesting conversation with her new secretary too.
Agree
- Don's recent (?) attitude towards Roger towards the end of the show especially. I missed exactly why he didn't want to go to that party though.
Don never supported Roger leaving his wife. I also think he feels it will remind Betty of their marital problems (which Roger's wife was kind enough to point out)
- Don is clearly still rooted in his past as revealed in the rags to riches story shared by him and the other gentleman behind the bar.
No Comment
- Pete and his clear connections to old money (I think) as demonstrated by his ability to dance the Charleston; presumably taught in private school. I was wondering how come he and his wife were the only ones who knew the dance.
Am I the only one that thought Pete and his wife rehearsed the dance so as to make a great impression at the party? If this was not the case, why did Pete make it a point to look so eagerly at Roger and Don while performing? Plus the camera made it a point to make it an extra long scene as well as showing the perfect choreography. Their overeagerness creeped me out
- Joan's relationship to her douchebag insecure husband and how she is trying to better manage it though compromise.
The ****** has been castrated.
- Betty's enduring (?) desire to hold her marriage together as demonstrated though her ability to forgive much more readily this time around.


See my thoughts on your thoughts in bold. I thought it was a great episode as well and only made me wonder where the season is going. I hope it does develop a structure.

By the way, I keep expecting the grandfather to "play" with the Draper's daughter. Which would annoy the **** out of me.

Originally Posted by Huntsman

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I really enjoyed the bar scene moments ago. The rye was Old Overholt.

Speculation has it that "Connie" from the bar scene is actually Conrad Hilton, who hailed from San Antonio, NM and would have been around 75 at the time and was of course financially successful.

I am curious to see if "Connie" will reappear in another episode.

Originally Posted by RSN125

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Speculation has it that "Connie" from the bar scene is actually Conrad Hilton, who hailed from San Antonio, NM and would have been around 75 at the time and was of course financially successful.

I am curious to see if "Connie" will reappear in another episode.

I didn't know this, but I would say that knowing how Weiner writes, there can be no question that was supposed to be Hilton.

The dance scene actually put a smile on my face. They seemed genuinely to be enjoying themselves (at least she was). And it was fun to watch the performance. Normally Campbell annoys the hell out of me.

The three characters who most rub me the wrong way are Campbell, Kinsey, and Joan. But they do add to the show. That quasi-Commie who was shamelessly hitting on Peggy is pretty obnoxious too.

Don spent a good portion of the party casting an amused, paternal gaze on characters like Campbell and Harry.

The episode lacked structure and yet it was so rich. Too much to mention. The interactions between the grandfather and the maid, the little girl's remorse (and yet her unwillingness to come clean), the tangential relevance of The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire to the actions of the characters and to this period of American history, Harry's inability to socialize and his wife's annoyance at being forced to abandon the dance floor, the interaction between Betty and the man from the governor's office, the discomfort of Campbell and his wife at the subject of pregnancy, the brief discussion of Rockefeller and Goldwater, the tension between Joan and her fiance and the quiet desperation underlying her performance at the party, the hurt in Betty's eyes and the way Don dropped her purse to kiss her in the dark, separated at last from the false cheer of the party . . .

Was anyone else irked by the "casual" pairing of what what were clearly suit halves as separates? Pete and Roger were both dressed this way at the lawn party. This would be pretty gauche even today, and unthinkable back then. MM's costuming is usually pretty good, so I'm kind of baffled...

If I were to give Mad men a legit shot, how should I do it? Do I need to start from previous seasons or should I just jump in like a Mad Man and hope for the best?

Originally Posted by blackplatano

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If I were to give Mad men a legit shot, how should I do it? Do I need to start from previous seasons or should I just jump in like a Mad Man and hope for the best?

You have to watch from the beginning. As previously mentioned, the story lines are so character driven that you'd be scratching your head wondering what the hell is going on.

The myriad of inside jokes in reference to an individuals' past is reason alone to watch from episode one.

Pretty good episode, and yes I was waiting for some craziness with the grandpa as well.

Overall, it looks like several story lines are emerging - Roger wrecking his life, Peggy truly spreading her wings, and potentially buying the business back from the brits (judging from the previous episodes?)

I was ready for Gene to completely go nuts and beat the hell out of Sally (she's such a silly *****).

The dance scene with the Campbells looked entirely rehearsed. I mentioned to my girlfriend that they likely practiced a lot in the weeks before the party to make a good impression.

Jeffrey was indeed played by Miles Fisher, the "This Must Be The Place" and American Psycho cover/parody video guy(http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.php?p=2397521&postcount=1). He did a decent job at what he was supposed to be.

Peggy is becoming quite the interesting character. Although a little annoying with her attempts to not be pegged and pigeonholed as the girl in a room full of boys.

I loved the scene when Don was putting together that Old Fashioned. There was something kind of magical about it. He made that drink with extreme precision and an experienced grace.

Was anyone else weirded out about the guy touching Betty's pregnant belly? What a creep. This episode also helped to reinforce how Betty is still rather childlike, always CRAVING attention any way she can get it.

That blackface routine was jarringly odd.