Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Holdfast, Aug 6, 2012.
Wooah there Slavoj! Don't put your ideology in my mouth, can't follow you at all.
Or, what you thought was "perfect" before was simply fallacious and you learned better what "perfect" really means. In other words, maybe you rose from your ignorance and simply improved at the task you were attempting to accomplish.
+1000, well put. And I don't think coat and tie, or a silk square, prohibits that.
Independent of whether that's true or false....I honestly don't remember enough about how I used to tie ties to say....the point is that I used to spend a lot more time getting my tie knot to whatever I considered the ideal state than I do now.
Sure, but my point is that doesn't necessarily mean you tie it more "natural" now.
While I understand where you're going (you're a psychiatrist or a psychanalyst, right?) I am not sure we have an actuall dissonance. In the end I think the belief that 1) a meritocracy is possible and even more so that 2) we have a meritocracy is so widely disbelieved that it is almost pointless to attribute it to people at large, although some individuals might pretend to hold these as true.
Fair enough, I don't know what it means to tie a tie "naturally", as ties are surely not part of what nature intended. But I feel more comfortable and relaxed wearing a tie now than I did before.
This is what I mean about loaded words. I am using "natural" to mean the same as "comfortable" or "relaxed."
Nature didn't intend shit and EVERYTHING is natural, this is probably the only point where Mafoo and I agree (or do we? maybe he's a natural rights kinda guy.).
Oh good god. Obviously not what I meant. Once you try to pin down the meaning of the word it has very little meaning in any context.
That says something about how we use it.
Also so far as I can tell I never used the word "natural" in any of my posts. introduced it.
I totally acknowledge that I'm "just dressing up". I'm not in a suit-wearing profession or social circle, but I do live in a city. Sometimes I'll wear a suit and tie just for its perceived effect on observers. i.e. being the contrarian 'suit' in a group of 'hipsters'. Or even just for personal enjoyment. And though I understand the conventions of good taste (graceful, harmonious and understated), that's precisely why I will sometmes I like to wear an exploding pocket square. I realize this way of dressing is much different that someone who dresses in the tailored tradition all the time. I feel a little like an imposter in this world, but I still enjoy knowing the arcane rules and using (or igonring them) to my own personal effect.
It is one of the most ideologically charged words you can think of, using it is entering a minefield.
I think in this context using it is clearly a joke, and this particular phrasing is often used on internet fora in a joking fashion, as in, "closing your collar with a collar pin as God/nature intended". But whatever, I think we agree on the actual issue of the matter...
Separate names with a comma.