UNITE! Tag in Made in USA suits

[justlurkingthanks]

1. Corporations are all about profit. That is not to put a value judgment on it -- that's what they're for, just as sharks swim and eat. They will drive down labor costs and safety expenses whenever they can. Now that government is cutting back on regulatory enforcement, the only thing that stands between a living wage and relatively safe workplace is a union. And it is the presence of unions in a community that is important, setting a wage and workplace standard. Does this mean unions are not run by fat, grubbing hacks? Well, no.

2. But I do get the same feeling from the UNITE. label -- cheap, souless, factory products.

3. Did someone here suggest H-F suits are shoddy?

 

[Mark Seitelman]

I just checked an Oxxford suit that I am wearing, and, indeed, the UNITE label is discreetly folded and tucked into the left inside pocket of the coat. It is very easy to miss.

Therefore, we have Exhibit A that Oxxford is unionized.

I do not think that you will find a major, factory made suit in the USA without the UNITE label. That also includes the quality manufacturers in Canada.

I also know that the tailors in the major stores, such as Brooks, are unionized. I'm not sure if they fall within UNITE or some other union, such as the one representing the salesmen.

I would also think that the tailors in Brioni, Kiton, and the other European factories are unionized. English and Savile Row tailors are unionized, and they had their labor/management battles before our Triangle Shirtwaist Fire.

Some small shops, which are really workshops rather than factories, may be non-union. Typically, the owner takes-in countrymen off the boat (or plane) to work in the shop, and the new arrival is happy to have a job. Although most owners try to take advantage of labor off the boat, most owners pay the union rate and give union benefits although they parties do not go through the formality of joining the union. This would include both the expensive and celebrated shops and tailors as well as the more humble tailors in the neighborhoods.

I am very happy to buy union goods.

When I had to build my office I had to use union

 

[acole]

3. Did someone here suggest H-F suits are shoddy?

Yes. Â Kabert, what's so "crappy" about H-F suits, please?

H-F's no Sartoria Attolini, but I'm looking at mine (RTW Boardroom) and seeing canvased front, hand-stitched buttonholes, LP 120s Tasmanian... Â It's a "modified American sack" cut, of course, but surely this is a matter of taste rather than quality. Â From what I remember of my distant, checkered sartorial past (which involves Stafford suits from JC Penney

), I'm thinking I could've done a lot worse than H-F--though I guess everything's relative.

 

[johnnynorman3]

I purchased a HF Madison model two weeks ago for $340. Great fabric -- mid-grey with thinly spaced pearl pinstripes, in a LP 120s tasmanian -- and the cut is not a modified sack. It actually resembles a Zegna cut (Saks), though the armholes could be higher.

It hasn't been tailored yet, but sure I can tell when I put it on that it isn't an Oxxford. But once you wear a Kiton, Oxxford, Attolini, etc. YOU can tell the difference, but it is a bit more subtle than we otherwise appreciate as knowledgeable folk.

 

[zjpj83]

I hate H-F, terrible experience at 5th Avenue with 2 made to measure suits. I would use the word crap with no reservation.

 

[johnnynorman3]

What was your bad experience? Would you term the suits crap or the MTM result?

 

[LA Guy]

I find the HF Canterbury model wearable, though not particularly exciting. The Boardroom I find square and unappealing.

 

[johnnynorman3]

The Madison is better than the Canterbury in my opinion, though I agree with your assessment of the Canterbury. The more recent Madison models have a slightly sloped and softly padded shoulder that has a bit of roping at the sleevehead, creating a nice "poof" -- really, it looks like Zegna (if they would just cut their damn armholes higher.).

 

[drizzt3117]

my $.02...

The concept of unions is a noble one, however, in reality they are inefficient and merely drive up labor costs for corporations. I was involved in import/export for quite some time, and the practices of dockworkers especially in the long beach area are ridiculous. Their average wages exceed $100k and most of them spend alot of time lounging around. This is not what was intended when unions were founded. At this point I think unionization in the US has become a liability to our corporations, and if we want to compete in a global market, we need to move ahead. The trend away from unionization began in the 80s and 90s and IMO will continue.

 

[zjpj83]

What was your bad experience? Would you term the suits crap or the MTM result?

Re: Hickey Freeman Both. It was an absolute disaster. First of all, when doing MTM at over $1500 a suit, I expected the quality to be like that of their top of the line suits and jackets (litte flap of fabric flapped and sewn under the collar, hand stitching, etc.) Nope. Quality was of regular line aka. mediocre at best. No detectable handwork. Had to pay $50 extra for pick stitching on the lapels, so, when you think about it, this is basically just aesthetic, probably added by a machine after the fact. So, lapels not handdone. no stitched underneath lapel indicating any kind of canvasing or high quality stitching, buttonholes on jacket machine done, etc. etc. $50 extra for working buttonholes. $50 or $100 extra for DB, don't remember which. As you can see, price adds up, and it was garbage for what I was paying, both in terms of construction, and, as you will see, fit, customer service, overall experience, etc. NEVER AGAIN One was one button peaked lapel. I asked for two button. But they made one. Oh, well, I didn't mind, looked ok, I guess. Fit is ok, nothing special. lapel width is gigantic, looks ridiculous. I know rounded peaked lapel is their signature but I'm around 36S and you don't do a 4 3/4 inch wide lapel for a 36S (yes, 4 3/4 inches). Also, all working buttonholes done on the sleeve aside from the top button of the right arm, which for some reason they finished and then did some extremely ugly "fake" working buttonhole stitching (perhaps to patch up an error?) Either way it looks riciulous, and the button doesn't sit properly on top anyway. All in all, looks ok, though no real shape to jacket. Second was a DB pinstripe. Big disaster. They made it miles too small. Then for some reason I notice they had done center vent... on a DB suit. Looked ridiculous. I obviously did not ask for that, but I asked for double vents. Sleeves were also literally inches too short AND they had already put working buttonholes in (this was at the first fititng) They tried to fiddle with the suit, come back for second fitting, I tell them it still sucks and they have to make a new jacket. Months are passing. finally, new jacket. Lapel width, as you can imagine, is equally out of proportion with body - same as the SB suit. At least they get the side vents right. Anyway, the thing doesn't hang properly, as a result the buttons on one side appear visually to be about an inch lower than the other. They fiddled with it more. More months pass, many fittings later. It still doesn't look right, but the master tailor there and the salesman say it looks great. They by this time, I'm so sick of the BS I take the suit and leave. Later, I even noticed that they even spelled my name wrong on the inner label. This is what I get for giving a company well over $3000?

 

[johnnynorman3]

I'm sure if you just take the thing to the local dry cleaner they'll be able to realter it for you.

That is total bs, Z. You should have refused to pay (when was this BTW -- you still may have time under the Uniform Commercial Code to ask for your money back -- I'll help you out if you'd like).

 

[j]

You should email HF customer service and point them to this thread- perhaps when they see the potential money they are bound to lose they might see the wisdom of making things right with you.

 

[zjpj83]

I'm sure if you just take the thing to the local dry cleaner they'll be able to realter it for you.

That is total bs, Z. Â You should have refused to pay (when was this BTW -- you still may have time under the Uniform Commercial Code to ask for your money back -- I'll help you out if you'd like).

It was this summer. What do you think - implied warranty of merchantability? I don't know if that would fly. I don't know if I want to deal with them anymore on any level anyway. Unfortunately, the law doesn't relieve you from just a "bad bargain." By the way, also note a few things. 1. this was in their main NYC 5th avenue shop. 2. they made me pay 100% up front. 3. Also worth noting that Darren saw the DB suit and thought the "hanging wrong" problem I mention was really poor quality.

 

[johnnynorman3]

Geez, I'd say you very likely have a claim if the suits are as bad as you say (indeed, the vent and button screw ups alone would give you a claim). Let me do some research (don't worry, this is fun for me) and I'll get back to you by the weekend.

 

[johnnynorman3]

J has a very good point -- why don't you email HF and link them to this thread as a first resort.

I really like HF, but I think I'll rethink my plans to go MTM with them if they leave you high and dry with serious tailoring errors.