The Trials and Tribulations of Bespoke.

[NewYorkIslander]

Ironic that this got bumped today. Just visited my tailor for a big fall order. I feel that over the past 4 years we have really honed in on my fit, and what I like. I started out asking for things really "fitted" with flash. I've grown out of (literally and stylistically) almost all of my earlier commissions. I've also gone a lot more conservative in styling as well, and I have to say, its almost all due to what I see that looks good on so many SF bespoke peeps (whnay, Foo, edmorel, manton, vox, trini). I still don't think my personal style will ever be as conservative as these guys, but seeing them look good in staples has made me think twice about going for a houndstooth suit when I know I'll wear the grey flannel better.

The most important thing though is the relationship you spark with your tailor. I find that Frank and Ercole are so very good to me, I enjoy talking with them about not only the garments and their craft, but life. Maybe I'm being a little naive, but I think there is something intangible that makes a garment great, when the maker not only understands the clients proportions, but the client himself.

Look fwd to breaking these new rigs out once the weather gets colder.

 

[TRINI]



I can't emphasize enough the benefits of working with someone local. It is an iterative process with each garment, and the ability to easily and quickly do fittings and make adjustments, wear the garment, make further adjustments, has in my experience resulted in greater satisfaction.

Quoted for truth.

I am lucky that my tailor's shop is close by. He himself has said that while he feels my pattern is sufficiently dialed in, he likes the fact that I'm right there to do additional fittings in case he just wants to double-check something.

 

[TRINI]



Look fwd to breaking these new rigs out once the weather gets colder.

What'd you get?

 

[coolpapa]



Quoted for truth.

I am lucky that my tailor's shop is close by. He himself has said that while he feels my pattern is sufficiently dialed in, he likes the fact that I'm right there to do additional fittings in case he just wants to double-check something.

Your tailor's attitude is also something anyone considering bespoke should look for. Horror stories seem to be relatively rare, but a tailor who takes the approach: it's not finished until you're happy, makes for an enjoyable experience. I've had that experience with Manuel Martinez, he's a joy to work with, and he's been a great partner through the bespoke experience.

 

[chobochobo]

some useful stuff. I'm a fairly easy fit in RTW but will probably get something made soon (my first ever) from someones exMBT - nothing flash just a navy blue linen DB suit, not been able to find one even in Italy.

 

[apropos]



some useful stuff. I'm a fairly easy fit in RTW but will probably get something made soon (my first ever) from someones exMBT - nothing flash just a navy blue linen DB suit, not been able to find one even in Italy.

I don't know you or your circumstances... but a linen DB as your first bespoke suit?

 

[David Reeves]

My best advice is to look at what the tailor or house makes. Do you like it? If you don't, do not be stupid and place an order. Referrals from existing clients are also worth listening to and these are useful for the potential client and the house.

Also if something is too good to be true it possibly is. I was saying to a client the other day that I can make him a $4000 suit for $2000 but I cant do that for $500. You can shop around and get good deals but not miracles like RTW that can be sold at a loss. If you try to talk down pricing or your not prepared to pay for quality one person in the relationship between tailor and client may be given short shrift.

 

[academe]



This is worth emphasising. The incremental satisfaction gained by getting what you want is worth waiting a bit longer between purchases, if you prefer set aside a certain amount per year for clothes. Fewer orders, with higher satisfaction is a much better proposition than more clothes that you're not as happy with.

I thought it might be worth following-up on Holdfast's comment and on Foo's earlier one. I think the notion of "not penny pinching" may be contingent upon the tailors that you have access to. In the UK, I think we have access to decent tailors at a range of price points, spanning from off-Row/regional tailors to more expensive SR ones, with price differentials that range as much as three times (e.g. off-Row/regional tailors ~£1K; SR tailors >£3K). If you travel to Europe or Asia regularly for work or play, you might also conceivably have access to skilled but less expensive tailors there, too (e.g. NSM, WW Chan, etc.). One value that I can see to using less expensive tailors is that the lower cost can provide an avenue to experiment and "play" with cuts, detailing, etc. that you might otherwise be less willing to do with a SR or top-tier European tailor, because the perceived "risk" of experimentation with a more expensive tailor may tend to push the customer towards more timeless/classic/conservative stylistic choices. Bear in mind that I'm not necessarily advocating wild stylistic experimentation; simply suggesting that there is a value to experimentation in the bespoke process because much can be learnt along the way, not only in technical terms, but also in terms of the on-going development of your personal aesthetic. I myself currently use an A&S expat as well as a less expensive Singaporean tailor. While I prefer the fineness of the work of my English tailor, I have valued the opportunity of working with my Singaporean tailor, too, because it's given me the chance to try fabrics and cuts that I would have otherwise been less willing to commission at a higher price point. In future, I plan on trying a range of tailors in Europe and in the UK, too, whose work I've seen and liked; part of this will be because I enjoy the fun of trying a new house/tailoring style...

 

[Holdfast]

What I meant (I leave it to Foo to explain his meaning), was that if you have your heart set on one particular look, which just happens to be executed best from a particular team, you may as well just save your pennies and get it from that team, even if it means the frequency of ordering is less than ideal. Trying to save money by getting a (cheaper) tailor to execute it instead will likely result in a lot of iterations, with greater total expense, and none of them really satisfying in the meantime. I'm lucky in liking a fairly middle-of-the-road typically English cut, so have a broad range of options that will achieve that result, plus the convenience of a tailor nearby who can execute it well enough for my liking, but if you have a more specific taste, then it strikes me that you're best served by paying whatever it takes to execute that taste well, instead of shopping around trying to get others to execute it, and not hitting the sweet spot.

This is different to what you're suggesting, which is effectively trying a range of tailors and styles to see which you like best in the first place. While deciding on your preferred look this way might be pricey and time-consuming, it's also likely to be a lot of fun, so I wouldn't advise against it as long as you know what you're getting into to (which it sounds like you are). It's different to the point I was trying to make.

 

[Dib]



The most important thing though is the relationship you spark with your tailor. I find that Frank and Ercole are so very good to me, I enjoy talking with them about not only the garments and their craft, but life. Maybe I'm being a little naive, but I think there is something intangible that makes a garment great, when the maker not only understands the clients proportions, but the client himself.

This is very true. I have been using one of the well known HK tailors for a few years, slowly refining the product and producing progressively better garments with each commission. In addition, I really enjoy working with the team and spending time at their store flicking through books of cloth, talking to the tailors, discussing tweaks to my pattern etc.

That said, a few days ago I was walking past one of the other well known HK tailors and decided to go inside and take a look at fabrics and talk about having a suit made (I hadn't been contemplating changing tailors, I just popped in impulsively on the basis that I was open to the possibility of trying other tailors just so I could diversify slightly, have something to compare my existing suits to etc). The staff I spoke to at this second tailor were very difficult to build a rapport with, not unpleasant but slightly cold and business like. I remember thinking that even if they produced good quality garments (which, by all accounts they do) I just wouldn't enjoy the process of working with them. I just couldn't see us building a connection and I could easily see this translating into suits that, whilst objectively speaking I'm sure would have been of excellent quality, just wouldn't have been a reflection of me/my style.

 

[academe]



What I meant (I leave it to Foo to explain his meaning), was that if you have your heart set on one particular look, which just happens to be executed best from a particular team, you may as well just save your pennies and get it from that team, even if it means the frequency of ordering is less than ideal. Trying to save money by getting a (cheaper) tailor to execute it instead will likely result in a lot of iterations, with greater total expense, and none of them really satisfying in the meantime. I'm lucky in liking a fairly middle-of-the-road typically English cut, so have a broad range of options that will achieve that result, plus the convenience of a tailor nearby who can execute it well enough for my liking, but if you have a more specific taste, then it strikes me that you're best served by paying whatever it takes to execute that taste well, instead of shopping around trying to get others to execute it, and not hitting the sweet spot.

This is different to what you're suggesting, which is effectively trying a range of tailors and styles to see which you like best in the first place. While deciding on your preferred look this way might be pricey and time-consuming, it's also likely to be a lot of fun, so I wouldn't advise against it as long as you know what you're getting into to (which it sounds like you are). It's different to the point I was trying to make.

Understood. Perhaps I misread what was written before. I do agree that it's not worthwhile asking a "cheaper" tailor to cut outside their preferred house style, unless of course they're Chan who have shown some degree of flexibility/ability to accommodate a broad range of requests. I have tended to select tailors because I like their house cut, and have never asked my tailors to deviate substantially from what they do best.I think it is worthwhile trying different houses to discover what cut you like best. Or, if you're like me, you simply appreciate/enjoy a range of different styles/cuts and wear different tailors' garments depending on your mood. I'm less sold on the idea of just dialling into one cut/style as I like the diversity of tailoring approaches out there...

 

[TRINI]

I actually used my RTW phase to figure out what styles I liked and what worked best for me.

 

[Macallan]



I actually used my RTW phase to figure out what styles I liked and what worked best for me.

this

 

[Fantastic Mr Foxx]

Great thread!

 

[Ianiceman]

Do the paper patterns made by a tailor 'belong' to you or the tailor?

I ask this because I'm thinking of commissioning a local tailor but I may be relocating in around a year, and he has talked of retiring in the not too distant future. I wonder what the etiquette is of requesting the patterns to pass on to a new tailor (assuming the fit was satisfactory).