Sourcing my frustratingly specific formalwear needs?

[Master Squirrel]

This one?

http://www.sarnotux.com/details.asp?CatalogID=857

 

[R-H]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

Groomsmen: On the slimmer side, Peak grosgrain lapels, one button, flat front. Do you think I can get away with putting them in white pique waistcoats for a slightly more formal look? If so, would a double-breasted waistcoat work with the tailcoat? (i.e. double-breasted waistcoat for me, single-breasted for them)

Am I crazy?


Yes.

Unless you're paying for all of this, let the men wear regular suits. Don't piss off your guests by making them spend money on clothing that they will never wear again. Emailing a link to an online MTM isn't helpful either.

If you are wealthy and willing to pay for all the expenses, then go ahead and dress your guests.

 

[Krawczak]

Master Squirrel: Yes. That's the one.

R-H: Really? Don't bridesmaids have to buy their dresses? I don't know how this goes, I've never gotten married before. I only have the Best Man, the father of the bride and one groomsman. I thought making the wedding party improve their wardrobes was just par for the course.

 

[Orgetorix]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

Orgetorix: Gahh! I'm a 38/38L. Probably not tailorable? I've found an OTR RL "Ritz" tailcoat for pretty cheeps. Is this worth even bothering? It has satin lapels, but otherwise the picture looks OK.
Not a chance. If I were you, I'd pass on the Ritz option for now. You've got plenty of time. Make a practice of haunting any vintage clothing stores that may be in San Diego--and if you make it up to LA, I know there are some there. My dress suit is a '60s Hickey Freeman that I found in a local vintage store, and it worked beautifully. Here's the thread I posted showing off the ensemble I put together. I did it all for fairly cheap--the coat and trousers was the most expensive part, and it was around $150. Stiff-fronted shirt: vintage, Ebay Vest: from a local place that sells ex-rental stuff. Studs and cufflinks: vintage, Ebay Collar: tall Grafton collar from Ede & Ravenscroft Tie: single-ended, white, pique from a dancewear company whose name escapes me. I'll try to hunt it down. Shoes: thrifted plain-toe bals You can get the appropriate shirt from The Vintage Shirt Co or Brooks Brothers. Brooks also has the vest, as well as appropriate pumps or shoes. And tails, for that matter--but I'd stay away from them, as the rise on the trousers won't be long enough to prevent the vest showing below the coat front.

 

[R-H]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

R-H: Really? Don't bridesmaids have to buy their dresses? I don't know how this goes, I've never gotten married before. I only have the Best Man, the father of the bride and one groomsman. I thought making the wedding party improve their wardrobes was just par for the course.

Pay for their attire yourself then.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

As for the future utility of white tie, believe it or not, I will have call for it again.

That's great. I guess I am asking elliptically whether your wedding is during the day or evening.

If day, you should get morning dress or a morning suit, if you must go such a formal route. This is common in European and Japanese weddings, but rather uncommon in weddings elsewhere, particularly in America.

If evening, it's been somewhat traditional in America to wear black tie if not wearing a suit, so much so that it has creeped into commonplace in day weddings. Europeans often scoff at this, but their perspective comes from local practices that often prohibited evening weddings, which was seldom the case in America.

Wearing full evening dress (white tie) in the day seems particularly odd to me. Wearing white tie for an evening wedding also seems a bit odd, although more tolerable I guess.

The fun and elegance of mens clothes exceeding the lounge suit in formality at events depends on the whole party of men...guests included...dressing in a similar way, in my opinion. Otherwise, it is a bit of a circus act.

Any way, best wishes.


- B

 

[Krawczak]

R-H, should I take this to mean that it isn't the custom for the wedding party to dress themselves according to our specs, or that it is, but you hate that custom? I really am clueless on this.

 

[Krawczak]

Vox, I understand what you're saying. I considered morning dress, but the wedding will be at 5:30 or so, with the reception going into the evening. My expectations for sartorial miracles at this event are not so high to allow for purchasing two sets of anachronistic formalwear for it. Black tie wouldn't be anathaema, I guess, but the wedding is going to be in a 19th century space, and I have been informed that the wedding dress is "victorian inspired", so the 20th century roots of the dinner jacket seem a little out of place to me. Do you still think morning dress would be better, though?

 

[Bounder]

You know, clothes were better looking then but people are better looking now. And what, exactly, is going on with the guy on the right?

 

[R-H]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

R-H, should I take this to mean that it isn't the custom for the wedding party to dress themselves according to our specs, or that it is, but you hate that custom? I really am clueless on this.

Assuming you are American, I don't think there is a custom. It is all over the map.

Ask your male guests to wear business suits and ties if you want. I think it is reasonable to assume that most adult men can put together a suit or sport coat combination without much trouble. If you are having a budget wedding that if great, but have some consideration for your guest's expenses as well.

Besides, the attire listed above is all costume now. People just don't wear that stuff anymore even if we wished they did.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Krawczak

Vox, I understand what you're saying. I considered morning dress, but the wedding will be at 5:30 or so, with the reception going into the evening.

After 5PM, definitely go with evening dress rather than morning.

Evening dress from Brooks runs about $2K, inclusive of their correct RTW piquÃ

vest and dress shirt with detachable collar. I'm not sure that you can do this more cheaply unless you go vintage.

PM member oregetrix...he did great with vintage with both morning and evening clothes by having them altered with care. He had a thread on this.

I think, nevertheless, that having your groomsman spring for this or scour vintage is a bit unreasonable. I'm unaware of a good rental source...you could call Keezer's in Cambridge to see if they could put together something serviceable for your party at a lower price and quality than Brooks.


- B

 

[Bounder]

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

After 5PM, definitely go with evening dress rather than morning. Evening dress from Brooks runs about $2K, inclusive of their correct RTW piquÃ

vest and dress shirt with detachable collar. I'm not sure that you can do this more cheaply unless you go vintage.
You can certainly find things like the dress shirt w/ detachable collar for less than BB. IIRC, it's quite a nice shirt but quite expensive as well. Try some on-line UK retailers. If you should happen to go to London at all, you will be in luck. There are places that sell vintage white tie, usually bespoke, very cheaply. The problem is that people were smaller back then so it can be very difficult to find something that can be made to fit. If, however, you are a 38, you are exactly in the sweet spot and will be spoilt for choice. You might even go so far as to call them up and see if they can send you one. A bit of a gamble, but it will cost you closer to 200 USD than 2000 so it might be worth it.

 

[makewayhomer]

Kraw,
I am in a similar boat as you. Evening wedding next year in a victorian building. I considered morning dress but ended up throwing it out for the obvious reason. I have chosen to do black tie as classic as I can. Single button peak lapel ventless with waistcoat (prob black) etc.
I think I will simply ask my groomsman to wear black tie and I will buy them the bow ties...up see less concerned about them than you.
A poster here recently did a mtm tux like this through mr. ned in nyc for 1k. Not sure if he does waistcoats or not I may have to buy the brooks brothers one.

THE tux you want from brooks brothers is the golden fleece one...it is $ 1600 I think but will go on sale after christmas..was just told this by a brooks sa. Perhaps 30% off if you sign up for a credit card with them.

Tm lewin also makes something you may like for much cheaper.
There is also ralph lauren purple label for much more, perhaps you can get lucky on a lightly used one here or on ebay. My plan is to hope to get lucky this way...then buy from lewin if I can't. I don't have a lot of use for black tie so I'd like to keep spend down.

Finally if you are a 9d or 8.5 d I have a new pair of opera pumps for sale!
Sorry for typos I'm on my phone

 

[Krawczak]

Oh, I don't expect the groomsmen to do white tie, I just want them to wear tuxedos that match, and don't look like they're at senior prom.

 

[voxsartoria]

Originally Posted by Orgetorix

Not a chance.

Here I go reccomending your thread and that OP PM you, and not only do I mangle your username, you've already posted in this thread with sound advice. My apologies. The important thing is that you looked great, and that if the OP can do as well, he should be happy. I'm not sure that I like mixing a groom in full dress and groomsmen in dinner clothes, though. - B