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Sourcing my frustratingly specific formalwear needs?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Krawczak, Sep 13, 2010.

  1. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    As for the future utility of white tie, believe it or not, I will have call for it again.

    That's great. I guess I am asking elliptically whether your wedding is during the day or evening.

    If day, you should get morning dress or a morning suit, if you must go such a formal route. This is common in European and Japanese weddings, but rather uncommon in weddings elsewhere, particularly in America.

    If evening, it's been somewhat traditional in America to wear black tie if not wearing a suit, so much so that it has creeped into commonplace in day weddings. Europeans often scoff at this, but their perspective comes from local practices that often prohibited evening weddings, which was seldom the case in America.

    Wearing full evening dress (white tie) in the day seems particularly odd to me. Wearing white tie for an evening wedding also seems a bit odd, although more tolerable I guess.

    The fun and elegance of mens clothes exceeding the lounge suit in formality at events depends on the whole party of men...guests included...dressing in a similar way, in my opinion. Otherwise, it is a bit of a circus act.

    Any way, best wishes.


    - B
     
  2. Krawczak

    Krawczak Well-Known Member

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    R-H, should I take this to mean that it isn't the custom for the wedding party to dress themselves according to our specs, or that it is, but you hate that custom? I really am clueless on this.
     
  3. Krawczak

    Krawczak Well-Known Member

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    Vox, I understand what you're saying. I considered morning dress, but the wedding will be at 5:30 or so, with the reception going into the evening. My expectations for sartorial miracles at this event are not so high to allow for purchasing two sets of anachronistic formalwear for it. Black tie wouldn't be anathaema, I guess, but the wedding is going to be in a 19th century space, and I have been informed that the wedding dress is "victorian inspired", so the 20th century roots of the dinner jacket seem a little out of place to me. Do you still think morning dress would be better, though?
     
  4. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    [​IMG] You know, clothes were better looking then but people are better looking now. And what, exactly, is going on with the guy on the right?
     
  5. R-H

    R-H Senior member

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    R-H, should I take this to mean that it isn't the custom for the wedding party to dress themselves according to our specs, or that it is, but you hate that custom? I really am clueless on this.

    Assuming you are American, I don't think there is a custom. It is all over the map.

    Ask your male guests to wear business suits and ties if you want. I think it is reasonable to assume that most adult men can put together a suit or sport coat combination without much trouble. If you are having a budget wedding that if great, but have some consideration for your guest's expenses as well.

    Besides, the attire listed above is all costume now. People just don't wear that stuff anymore even if we wished they did.
     
  6. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Vox, I understand what you're saying. I considered morning dress, but the wedding will be at 5:30 or so, with the reception going into the evening.

    After 5PM, definitely go with evening dress rather than morning.

    Evening dress from Brooks runs about $2K, inclusive of their correct RTW piquÃ[​IMG] vest and dress shirt with detachable collar. I'm not sure that you can do this more cheaply unless you go vintage.

    PM member oregetrix...he did great with vintage with both morning and evening clothes by having them altered with care. He had a thread on this.

    I think, nevertheless, that having your groomsman spring for this or scour vintage is a bit unreasonable. I'm unaware of a good rental source...you could call Keezer's in Cambridge to see if they could put together something serviceable for your party at a lower price and quality than Brooks.


    - B
     
  7. Bounder

    Bounder Senior member

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    After 5PM, definitely go with evening dress rather than morning. Evening dress from Brooks runs about $2K, inclusive of their correct RTW piquÃ[​IMG] vest and dress shirt with detachable collar. I'm not sure that you can do this more cheaply unless you go vintage.
    You can certainly find things like the dress shirt w/ detachable collar for less than BB. IIRC, it's quite a nice shirt but quite expensive as well. Try some on-line UK retailers. If you should happen to go to London at all, you will be in luck. There are places that sell vintage white tie, usually bespoke, very cheaply. The problem is that people were smaller back then so it can be very difficult to find something that can be made to fit. If, however, you are a 38, you are exactly in the sweet spot and will be spoilt for choice. You might even go so far as to call them up and see if they can send you one. A bit of a gamble, but it will cost you closer to 200 USD than 2000 so it might be worth it.
     
  8. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Senior member

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    Kraw,
    I am in a similar boat as you. Evening wedding next year in a victorian building. I considered morning dress but ended up throwing it out for the obvious reason. I have chosen to do black tie as classic as I can. Single button peak lapel ventless with waistcoat (prob black) etc.
    I think I will simply ask my groomsman to wear black tie and I will buy them the bow ties...up see less concerned about them than you.
    A poster here recently did a mtm tux like this through mr. ned in nyc for 1k. Not sure if he does waistcoats or not I may have to buy the brooks brothers one.

    THE tux you want from brooks brothers is the golden fleece one...it is $ 1600 I think but will go on sale after christmas..was just told this by a brooks sa. Perhaps 30% off if you sign up for a credit card with them.

    Tm lewin also makes something you may like for much cheaper.
    There is also ralph lauren purple label for much more, perhaps you can get lucky on a lightly used one here or on ebay. My plan is to hope to get lucky this way...then buy from lewin if I can't. I don't have a lot of use for black tie so I'd like to keep spend down.

    Finally if you are a 9d or 8.5 d I have a new pair of opera pumps for sale!
    Sorry for typos I'm on my phone
     
  9. Krawczak

    Krawczak Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I don't expect the groomsmen to do white tie, I just want them to wear tuxedos that match, and don't look like they're at senior prom.
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    Not a chance.
    [​IMG] Here I go reccomending your thread and that OP PM you, and not only do I mangle your username, you've already posted in this thread with sound advice. My apologies. The important thing is that you looked great, and that if the OP can do as well, he should be happy. I'm not sure that I like mixing a groom in full dress and groomsmen in dinner clothes, though. - B
     
  11. Krawczak

    Krawczak Well-Known Member

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    Well, I certainly can't expect the groomsmen to wear white tie. I'm surprised that Orgetorix's friends managed to talk anyone into it. This is discouraging. I had this picture in my head of everyone looking great. If these guys are going to be standing up there wearing their ill-fitting tan jackets and chinos with a novelty tie, I'd rather just not even have them there.
     
  12. makewayhomer

    makewayhomer Senior member

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    Every wedding I've been in ive been told what wear. I had to buy specific navy blazer/khakis/tie/shirt, rent a specific tux (2 x), wear my own tux, wear whatever. Your groomsman should be flexible
     
  13. Metlin

    Metlin Senior member

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    holy gathering of old white rich men

    Vox which one are you [​IMG]


    The pith helmet is missing.
     
  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Senior member

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    The pith helmet is missing.

    Gathering is indoors.


    - B
     
  15. Metlin

    Metlin Senior member

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    Gathering is indoors.
    TouchÃ[​IMG]!
     
  16. Orgetorix

    Orgetorix Senior member

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    Well, I certainly can't expect the groomsmen to wear white tie. I'm surprised that Orgetorix's friends managed to talk anyone into it. This is discouraging. I had this picture in my head of everyone looking great. If these guys are going to be standing up there wearing their ill-fitting tan jackets and chinos with a novelty tie, I'd rather just not even have them there.
    The rest of the wedding party rented. And if you're going to rent, generally you'll rent whatever the groom tells you to rent. I gave him advice when he was making the rental arrangements so that everyone turned out as classically correct as possible (and so that I matched them). I just bought mine because I wanted a better fit, I got good prices on all the elements of the outfit, and it was probably the one opportunity in my life where I'd have the excuse to buy white tie rig.
    [​IMG] Here I go reccomending your thread and that OP PM you, and not only do I mangle your username, you've already posted in this thread with sound advice. My apologies. The important thing is that you looked great, and that if the OP can do as well, he should be happy.
    No worries. [​IMG]
     

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