Learning a new language (french)

[Johnny Amiga]

Last week I started studying french at the summer university, as I figured it's a bit embarassing knowing only three languages (well, two and a half really, as my swedish is rather awful). However, this language of the frenchies is not quite as easy as I thought it'd be. Infact, it's really ******* difficult, and I'm almost starting to feel like for now I may have overextended myself.

I'm studying french because I'm starting to think that I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing writing as a freelancer, so my long term plan is to end up at the University of Montreal and get my Master's on Criminology from there. And also because I've been long interested in the language, not least because of my film geekiness (it'd be great to be able to watch films by Cocteau, Melville, Renoir and Bresson without subtitles).

But the problem is, I don't know how to start studying a new language. I learned english way back when very easily thru watching films (due to films like Commando, Predator and the like, my english vocabulary was "interesting" back in the first few grades of school), playing computer games (I've often credited my proficiency in english to old Lucasarts games, like DoTT, Sam&Max, Indy etc). Swedish I learnt in junior high in the "traditional way", and I didn't do a very good job with it.

Now I'm kinda feeling like my biggest obstacle in learning french is the fact that I'm starting with basically zero vocabulary. Started Pimsleur, and I'm half thru the first level, but sofar it's introducing new words way too slowly. Summer university is doing a good job introducing alot of new words, but there it's almost as if the pace is too quick and I feel like I'm constantly at a danger of falling behind because this vocabulary isn't sticking. So now I'm looking for any kind of advice on how to start building a vocabulary. I doubt I'll have problems learning the grammar in the long term, but for now I feel like I need to learn alot of words quick. Basically, I need some good techniques on how to memorize words quickly.

If anyone here has any advice on the subject, it'd be much appreciated. Mostly I'm looking for advice on vocabulary like mentioned, but if someone has some other great insight into studying french, please share it.

Thanks!

 

[dtmt]

For straight memorization, I like this program:
http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/index.php
It's a flash card program with an intelligent algorithm that shows you cards less often if you keep getting them correct. This way you spend most of the time with words you're having difficulty with or new words.

Pimsleur is a waste of time. Even if you make it through level 3 (they make it sound advanced), it's still less than one semester at a decent university.

Also, IMO if you already know English, any other European language should be cake. A lot of words are very similar, and grammar is not that different. You will really appreciate this fact if you ever try learning an Asian language.

Originally Posted by Johnny Amiga

Last week I started studying french at the summer university, as I figured it's a bit embarassing knowing only three languages

 

[Lel]

Originally Posted by Johnny Amiga

Last week I started studying french at the summer university, as I figured it's a bit embarassing knowing only three languages (well, two and a half really, as my swedish is rather awful). However, this language of the frenchies is not quite as easy as I thought it'd be. Infact, it's really ******* difficult, and I'm almost starting to feel like for now I may have overextended myself.

I'm studying french because I'm starting to think that I don't want to spend the rest of my life doing writing as a freelancer, so my long term plan is to end up at the University of Montreal and get my Master's on Criminology from there. And also because I've been long interested in the language, not least because of my film geekiness (it'd be great to be able to watch films by Cocteau, Melville, Renoir and Bresson without subtitles).

But the problem is, I don't know how to start studying a new language. I learned english way back when very easily thru watching films (due to films like Commando, Predator and the like, my english vocabulary was "interesting" back in the first few grades of school), playing computer games (I've often credited my proficiency in english to old Lucasarts games, like DoTT, Sam&Max, Indy etc). Swedish I learnt in junior high in the "traditional way", and I didn't do a very good job with it.

Now I'm kinda feeling like my biggest obstacle in learning french is the fact that I'm starting with basically zero vocabulary. Started Pimsleur, and I'm half thru the first level, but sofar it's introducing new words way too slowly. Summer university is doing a good job introducing alot of new words, but there it's almost as if the pace is too quick and I feel like I'm constantly at a danger of falling behind because this vocabulary isn't sticking. So now I'm looking for any kind of advice on how to start building a vocabulary. I doubt I'll have problems learning the grammar in the long term, but for now I feel like I need to learn alot of words quick. Basically, I need some good techniques on how to memorize words quickly.

If anyone here has any advice on the subject, it'd be much appreciated. Mostly I'm looking for advice on vocabulary like mentioned, but if someone has some other great insight into studying french, please share it.

Thanks!

Live there.

Seriously.

 

[dpw]

suggest you try "Rosetta Stone" used by USA State Dept, many international buusinesses etc. pretty good for learing to speak. in my experience, university language programes are still the best to learn how to read and write. i hate to admit it, but the way i picked up vocabulary was to use flash cards, easy to pick up in any book store. bon chance

 

[dickjones]

I 'll prefer you French language as its quit hard to learn and very interesting too.I find learning vocabulary as the toughest part in this language.
It's a bit hard to explain, so I'll give you some examples.
Manger (to eat) conjugated in the present tense (the first type of tense)
Je mange
Tu manges
Il/elle/on mange
Nous mangeons
Vous mangez
Ils/elles mangent



Pretty easy. Most verbs that end in -er have identical endings for present tense.

But then there's things like the passe compose, the general past tense -
J'ai mange
Tu as mange
Il/elle/on a mange
Nous avons mange
Vous avez mange
Ils/elles ont mange
(each of those 'mange' should have an accent going up and to the right on them)
As you can see, the verb itself does not change at all. It's the preceding word which changes, the equivalent of the 'did' in "I DID eat" in english. The "eat" doesn't change for the pronoun, but the 'did' part does.

Je suis assis dans la chaise
I am sitting in the chair (word for word)

However, I guess if you add in some extra things it can get muddled. For example,
Je ME suis assis dans la chaise
I myself did sit in the chair (word for word again )
That should translate to "I sat myself in the chair", so I guess the orders of things aren't quite identical.


The verbs are pretty simple once you get used to them (they are seperated into catagories: verbs finishing in er, verbs finishing in ir,...), but the participle, especially with the verb to have (avoir), is a real pain ********** (legend says that the grammatical rule was created after a monk misprinted a word, so you know that it can't be very logical ).

Consonants are often doubled, but there is much less use of illogical letter groupings than in English (like the word "laughing"). French also uses the following letters: Ã

, è, ê (becoming extinct and being replaced by è), ô, à , â, Ã

, ù, û, æ, oe (but stuck together like æ) and ç.


http://www.learningfrenchcritic.com/

 

[Joffrey]

Originally Posted by Lel

Live there.

Seriously.

+1. The only sure way to learn a language. After years of french in highschool and college I am still at a weak intermediate level (partially my fault for lack of practice) but after a month living in Grenoble I was doing pretty well in understanding and speaking a bit. The best way to learn is to totally immerse yourself in the language which means living in a french speaking country for a few months. If you can't do that take immersion courses but eventually you need to aim toward living there.

 

[somecallmebj]

Originally Posted by dtmt

For straight memorization, I like this program:
http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/index.php
It's a flash card program with an intelligent algorithm that shows you cards less often if you keep getting them correct. This way you spend most of the time with words you're having difficulty with or new words.

Pimsleur is a waste of time. Even if you make it through level 3 (they make it sound advanced), it's still less than one semester at a decent university.

Also, IMO if you already know English, any other European language should be cake. A lot of words are very similar, and grammar is not that different. You will really appreciate this fact if you ever try learning an Asian language.

Awesome program

I'm gonna have to try this out. Thanks for mentioning it.

 

[Syl]

I studied french in highschool from Form 1 through 6. I also took it again as an option while at university. I learnt more living one year in Ottawa (Canada) than I had learnt all those years in classes.

I truly believe the only way to really know a language is to live in the environment.

 

[Johnny Amiga]

Originally Posted by dtmt

For straight memorization, I like this program:
http://www.mnemosyne-proj.org/index.php
It's a flash card program with an intelligent algorithm that shows you cards less often if you keep getting them correct. This way you spend most of the time with words you're having difficulty with or new words.
Thanks, this is exactly what I was looking for! It's already proved itself very useful.

Also gave Rosetta's Stone a try, and it's not half bad either.

Thanks for all the replies, really appreciate the help!

And yeah, I know that living in a french speaking enviroment is the best way to learn a language, but the point was that I can't do that before I get my bachelors degree. Afterwards I'll be moving to Montreal quite soon anyways if everything goes smoothly, but I'd rather want to have a somehwhat of a working knowledge of french before that, so that adapting to life there would go a lil bit smoother.

 

[brissyboy]

Take the plunge and move there, I agree

 

[Etienne]

Originally Posted by Syl

I truly believe the only way to really know a language is to live in the environment.
It's the best way to improve your vocabulary and oral fluency. For grammar and writing proficiency, though, nothing beats traditional classes.

 

[hisroadside]

well french is a beautiful language but filled with so many subtleties that its nearly impossible to get right. For example we dont speak the same language beween youths, adults and there exist like two or three different writing styles, formal informal etc.

Les Ricains et leurs grolles c'est des tfous.

Les Americains et leurs chaussures sont des fous.

same thing is written but in very very different styles. i hope ive made my point clear. learn the basics though it alwys seems "cute" to the french to hear our language in proper form and travel to France its the best way to learn a language especially french since it is so linked in with the culture. voivoyer, tutoyer etc. good luck in any case, its always easier than hungarian.

and it isnt exactly shameful to only speak three languages, thats more than like 80 percent of people.

 

[hisroadside]

Also, IMO if you already know English, any other European language should be cake. A lot of words are very similar, and grammar is not that different. You will really appreciate this fact if you ever try learning an Asian language.

[/quote]


sorry for having to disagree but european languages are VERY different. the link between german and english are evident, as are the latin languages, but i see little correlation between say slavic languages, hungarian (wich is something of a world exception as it is like a mix between Ingoush and persian influences or something like that) not to mention anything spoken in the Caucasus and finnish, scandanavian, not to mention three distinct alphabets. greek cyrilic and latin.
I think you meant latin european though and I agree with you there, they are very close.

 

[haganah]

check out the alliance francaise

 

[MarcellHUN]

Originally Posted by hisroadside

Also, IMO if you already know English, any other European language should be cake. A lot of words are very similar, and grammar is not that different. You will really appreciate this fact if you ever try learning an Asian language.

sorry for having to disagree but european languages are VERY different. the link between german and english are evident, as are the latin languages, but i see little correlation between say slavic languages, hungarian (wich is something of a world exception as it is like a mix between Ingoush and persian influences or something like that) not to mention anything spoken in the Caucasus and finnish, scandanavian, not to mention three distinct alphabets. greek cyrilic and latin. I think you meant latin european though and I agree with you there, they are very close.

Ingoush and persian mix? My language? No way... Hungarian is hungarian. We came from Mars.