Future plans...Law School??! Sound advice welcome.

[cptjeff]



Wait, what the hell, how do you have 45k in debt from I'm assuming a public school?  I went to a top 10 undergrad and didn't even have that much debt upon graduating!  Has the cost of college gone up THAT much?

Yes. $45k total is around $11k a year, which is a good deal cheaper than most public schools these days. After various fees (including housing, which OP may have avoided), most are running around $16-25k these days, in state. Out of state, market rate, which is essentially the same as a private school (mine was $45k, which is typical) of a comparable tier. Actually, for out of state students, private schools are often just as good a deal, because they're often able to offer better scholarship deals to out of state students.

It is almost literally impossible to work your way through college these days. Any time I hear somebody railing about kids not having any work ethic or whatever because they're not working themselves through college, it's an instant indicator that the speaker has no idea what they're talking about.

 

[CushyCouture]

Yes. $45k total is around $11k a year, which is a good deal cheaper than most public schools these days. After various fees (including housing, which OP may have avoided), most are running around $16-25k these days, in state. Out of state, market rate, which is essentially the same as a private school (mine was $45k, which is typical) of a comparable tier. Actually, for out of state students, private schools are often just as good a deal, because they're often able to offer better scholarship deals to out of state students.
It is almost literally impossible to work your way through college these days. Any time I hear somebody railing about kids not having any work ethic or whatever because they're not working themselves through college, it's an instant indicator that the speaker has no idea what they're talking about.

I don't know if this matters but I graduated 6 years ago and I worked my way through college. It requires a lot of hard work, but it's possible. I worked multiple internships that paid me 20 some dollars an hour. Coupled with the free money I got from school I was able to graduate with less debt than the OP.

 

[cptjeff]



I don't know if this matters but I graduated 6 years ago and I worked my way through college.  It requires a lot of hard work, but it's possible.  I worked multiple internships that paid me 20 some dollars an hour.  Coupled with the free money I got from school I was able to graduate with less debt than the OP.

$20 an hour for an internship sans college degree is not anywhere near normal, especially in this economy. It's great that you were able to do it, but recognize that your experience is very rare.

Things have changed very dramatically over time. I met a man in his 80's a few years ago who was able to pay his way through four years at a private school (one which now runs about $30k a year, with an estimate of $45 with housing, expenses,and fees) by working at the local mill for one year. That's your historic contrast. Four years of college could be comfortably paid for with what moderately skilled labor in a non-union environment made in a year. No debt, and money left over.

More people are going to college than ever, college costs have skyrocketed at four times the rate of inflation (you know how people say medical costs have shot up? College costs have gone up at twice the rate), and college is more necessary than ever. Something doesn't add up, and everybody has their pet theory, but there are going to be some serious societal consequences if these trends keep going. Hell, we're already seeing young workers stuck under a mountain of debt while stuck with low paying jobs, at the same time as the elimination of a lot of entry level professional positions, which hasn't exactly had good consequences for our economy.

 

[CushyCouture]

$20 an hour for an internship sans college degree is not anywhere near normal, especially in this economy. It's great that you were able to do it, but recognize that your experience is very rare.
Things have changed very dramatically over time. I met a man in his 80's a few years ago who was able to pay his way through four years at a private school (one which now runs about $30k a year, with an estimate of $45 with housing, expenses,and fees) by working at the local mill for one year. That's your historic contrast. Four years of college could be comfortably paid for with what moderately skilled labor in a non-union environment made in a year. No debt, and money left over.
More people are going to college than ever, college costs have skyrocketed at four times the rate of inflation (you know how people say medical costs have shot up? College costs have gone up at twice the rate), and college is more necessary than ever. Something doesn't add up, and everybody has their pet theory, but there are going to be some serious societal consequences if these trends keep going. Hell, we're already seeing young workers stuck under a mountain of debt while stuck with low paying jobs, at the same time as the elimination of a lot of entry level professional positions, which hasn't exactly had good consequences for our economy.

Well it depends what your industry is, in mine $2X/hr is normal for an internship. And from what I've heard it is also the norm for finance internships.

As for the young workers stuck in a mountain of debt, that is their own fault more often than not. My parents didn't pay for my expensive college education and I paid off my college debt within a year. If you're poor growing up, perhaps it's not a good idea to major in communications at a state school. Now I'm not saying that everyone should do finance or engineering, but it is often a good alternative if you don't have financial backing. And if you're not smart enough to handle one of those useful majors, maybe college isn't the best investment, maybe you should go to trade school, or play music, or basically use your talents to earn money. And for those who are poor because they are trying to live their dream, that's cool too, but if they are smart enough to know how good or bad they are, and if they are truly passionate and work incredibly hard at it, there's a good chance they'll make it in America. All this is capitalism for you, a majority of the time things work out such that you can at least afford to support yourself. Over half the people who say otherwise are like those idiots from Occupy Wall Street.

 

[CushyCouture]

Not only that, a lot of people are in debt because they are stupid with their money. Look at the current financial crisis we're in; it's due in large part to the credit comes first mentality many people have. I know people who:

1. Spend $100/month on a cell phone bill when they are studying for their GED and have a kid at home.
2. Have credit card debt but buys a new car.

Earlier I posted a question asking about wardrobe budget. We are all protected by anonymity and yet I only got 1 response. This tells me the majority of the people here either:

1. Are mega rich and think I'm a joke for not being able to afford $1XX dress shirts, so they don't bother replying.
2. Are significantly poorer than me but buy the expensive clothes I read about in those magazines, and are too ashamed to even reply through an anonymous forum.

I live in one of the most expensive cities in the United States, so even though I make 100k I still can't reasonably afford to dress in Thomas Pink and wear Oliver People's sunglasses no matter how much I want to. I guess if you want to be an idiot and not save anything for retirement/family/investments then yeah, you can but if you want those things you simply can't.

 

[ConcernedParent]

Law schools not a great option, but come on, lets not exaggerate... top 10% at HYS or bust?

The problem is... a 157 is not going to cut it, neither is a 3.5 for a t14. Thankfully you can change the LSAT score. The problem is no matter how much you study, 170+ is not guaranteed.

 

[MonMornQB]

Yes, college tuition is out of control. My 45k is actually on the low end compared to many of my peers. I've worked full time the entirety of my college career also, but earned nothing close to $20/hr. For an internship too? Lucky bastard. Lol. I have no doubts I'll be able to eventually pay my loans back, even if I continued the line of work I'm in now. The question was wether adding more debt is wise, and if I do, which field of study in graduate school would reap the best returns?

 

[CushyCouture]

Yes, college tuition is out of control. My 45k is actually on the low end compared to many of my peers. I've worked full time the entirety of my college career also, but earned nothing close to $20/hr. For an internship too? Lucky bastard. Lol. I have no doubts I'll be able to eventually pay my loans back, even if I continued the line of work I'm in now. The question was wether adding more debt is wise, and if I do, which field of study in graduate school would reap the best returns?

Don't take this the wrong way but I think you need a dose of truth: with your scores graduate school is not the best option for you. Even a T25 law school is out of the question with your LSAT unless maybe you are black or hispanic or some other minority they look for. You didn't study mediciine. Business school is out of the question because you don't have the work experience.

There. That's about all the types of grad school that usually produce high incomes. Now let's look at regular grad school(M.S./p.H.D. in something). Is it really worth the money to get a degree that might not be worth anything, because after all, you didn't study engineering either. For six figures it's usually one of the aforementioned degrees(MBA business, tech, J.D., M.D.) And with the amount of student loan debt you have, IN KANSAS OF ALL PLACES, where $2 will probably get you a big mac at mcdonald's it would be crucial to be financially saavy. If I were you I'd move in with my parents and get a job to try to slowly pay off that student loan debt, because the money produced from interest is no joke. What is the rate, like 7%? That's over 3 gs! And I don't even know how often it's compounded!

By the way, don't ******* insult me with the lucky bastard quip. I busted ****** working those internships while going to school. You think they pay $25 an hour because anyone can do it?

 

[sns23]

A lot of people bust their ass. In fact, some people even more qualified than you probably did not get the positions. Some luck is involved in everything.

 

[CushyCouture]

A lot of people bust their ass. In fact, some people even more qualified than you probably did not get the positions. Some luck is involved in everything.

How much luck though? Like 3%? Yeah I was just "lucky" to get into my school. I was just "lucky" to do better than the other candidates during the whiteboard section of the interview. You DO know that software engineering interviews are all about whiteboard problem solving right? The top companies are all about that at least. So given what is required to get one of these internships how "lucky" did you think I was? How many "people even more qualified" just happened to have a combination of lesser grades, lesser schools, lesser relevant project/work experience, and/or lesser interview performance? Then what the hell did they have exactly that they were "more qualified" in than me?

You know, I get incensed when I hear this because I went to school with a lot of rich ***** whose parents paid for everything and would spew this bullshit.

 

[CushyCouture]

A lot of people bust their ass. In fact, some people even more qualified than you probably did not get the positions. Some luck is involved in everything.

How much luck though? Like 3%? Yeah I was just "lucky" to get into my school. I was just "lucky" to do better than the other candidates during the whiteboard section of the interview. You DO know that software engineering interviews are all about whiteboard problem solving right? The top companies are all about that at least. So given what is required to get one of these internships how "lucky" did you think I was? How many "people even more qualified" just happened to have a combination of lesser grades, lesser schools, lesser relevant project/work experience, and/or lesser interview performance? Then what the hell did they have exactly that they were "more qualified" in than me?

You know, I get incensed when I hear this because I went to school with a lot of rich ***** whose parents paid for everything and would spew this bullshit.

 

[Ebichuman]

Take it easy CC, no one is insulting you so don't make this thread about your issues, please.

 

[MonMornQB]

Hahaha....pretty sensitive there ay CC? I don't doubt you worked hard, but that hardly puts you in exclusive company; anyone who works full-time and earns a degree works hard. I'm not sure how old you are, but if you haven't realized it yet there's a certain amount of luck, i.e. timing, randomness of opportunity, etc. that's involved with every successful person's climb. If the dismissive nature of rich kids incense you, your "I did it all myself" attitude is hardly any more becoming.

Smart people work hard. Opportunities come to those who prepare. But ALL successful people are lucky too. Fact.

I disagree with your assessment concerning the MBA, I know of numerous individuals who earned the MBA with zilch work experience. This includes my sister.

So MBA, tech, or JD is the only way to make an above average income? We must have different ideas of what average is.

Your advice is appreciated, but only marginally useful.

 

[imschatz]

I worked two internships .. 2009 and 2010 .. And got $18-20/hr.

After school .. I had to work 10 months at $24/hr .. But I was lucky to get work straight out of school. My coworkers went a year without meaningful work.

 

[CushyCouture]

Hahaha....pretty sensitive there ay CC? I don't doubt you worked hard, but that hardly puts you in exclusive company; anyone who works full-time and earns a degree works hard. I'm not sure how old you are, but if you haven't realized it yet there's a certain amount of luck, i.e. timing, randomness of opportunity, etc. that's involved with every successful person's climb. If the dismissive nature of rich kids incense you, your "I did it all myself" attitude is hardly any more becoming.
Smart people work hard. Opportunities come to those who prepare. But ALL successful people are lucky too. Fact.
I disagree with your assessment concerning the MBA, I know of numerous individuals who earned the MBA with zilch work experience. This includes my sister.
So MBA, tech, or JD is the only way to make an above average income? We must have different ideas of what average is.
Your advice is appreciated, but only marginally useful.

haha, OK then. Listen, I'm the same age as you. May I ask what b school your sister attended without any work experience? I'm pretty sure it wasn't top 20, the schools that are more likely to pay the high salaries you're looking for(I'm assuming 100k+ judging by your student loan debt. If it was top 20, please let me know how she did it with just grades and GMAT, because it'll be the first time I'm hearing about it. So here I was giving you damn valuable advice from my own experience, the experience of my friends, colleagues, and relatives who either are: money managers, graduates from top 5 business/law schools, or engineers like myself and you rebuff it. Everything I said except for maybe the exact interest rate for you student loans is fact. But alright. You live your life and I'll live mine. You have 45k in debt and I have 0. It's in your blood man, it's in your blood. By the way, do me a favor and apply the next term to Boalt or Wharton, tell me how it goes buddy.