De-fusing a Polo RL coat? I seem to have done it.

Being doubtful about forum assertions that older "Made in USA" mainline Polo RL jackets were not fused, I conducted the infamous "pinch test" on the coat of an older Polo gray flannel suit I'd bought on eBay last year. As I expected, it was fully fused, but after fiddling a little, I was surprised to find than I could actually pull the fused canvas interlining and the shell cloth apart with no more effort than would be required to pull masking tape off carpet! The lapels were more firmly fused, so I didn't mess with them, but in less than 10 minutes of effort I was able to de-fuse the rest of the coat front from hem to shoulder. The coat--which had always been a bit stiff for my liking, is now MUCH softer, as it effectively now has a genuine--if improvised--floating canvas (lapels excepted).

Has anyone ever seen or done anything like this before? I'm astonished, but very happy. I wonder if the spongy nature of the flannel somehow prevented the fusing from adhering more? And as the canvas interlining is still attached to the cloth via the lapel fusing and the pocket/dart stitching, i don't think I've done any structural damage. It just seems like an entirely new suit!

I could be totally wrong here, but it sounds like you took a canvassed jacket and ripped the canvas loose.

Yes, I suspect what you did was not what you think you did.

EDIT: Here's an interesting thread on coat construction over at AA:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=86160

Originally Posted by Ataturk

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I could be totally wrong here, but it sounds like you took a canvassed jacket and ripped the canvas loose.

Hmm. Don't think so.

I could be wrong (seems like a lot of folk are on this particular issue) but as I understand it, the market-perpetuated disinction between "canvassed" and "fused" (J. Crew, anyone?) is false. A fused jacket merely has its canvas glued in rather than than letting it float free, but it's still "canvassed," innit? This appears to have been a fully (if weakly) fused jacket which I've basically liberated from the fusing, leaving the canvass (definitely a single piece in there) more or less floating. No stitch was ripped in the process, and nothing's falling out of place or out of shape.

All terminology aside, my point is that the jacket is now much softer and flexible, as one would expect of non-fused construction.

Originally Posted by Montauk

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All terminology aside, my point is that the jacket is now much softer and flexible, as one would expect of non-fused construction.
As well as of non-canvassed construction.

If you're happy with the fit of the coat, who cares if its canvassed, fused, or otherwise?

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

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Yes, I suspect what you did was not what you think you did.

EDIT: Here's an interesting thread on coat construction over at AA:

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/f...ad.php?t=86160

Yeah--I've read and mostly comprehended that post before. I suppose my coat could be the "padded lapel" type, and what I've been thinking were fused lapels might in fact be fused and/stitch padded (which would account for why it couldn't be pulled apart). My confusion seems to be regarding "canvas" as opposed to "fusible"; I guess what I've got now is a "floating fusible" construction?

In any case, I like it.

Originally Posted by CityGent

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If you're happy with the fit of the coat, who cares if its canvassed, fused, or otherwise?

I generally agree with that philosophy, and think that whole canvas issue is just a wee bit fetishized around here, but the fact is that a well-fitting but somewhat stiff coat is now a well-fitting and rather soft coat.

Originally Posted by Montauk

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Hmm. Don't think so. I could be wrong (seems like a lot of folk are on this particular issue) but as I understand it, the market-perpetuated disinction between "canvassed" and "fused" (J. Crew, anyone?) is false. A fused jacket merely has its canvas glued in rather than than letting it float free, but it's still "canvassed," innit? .
No. Not at all. Canvas is a woven product made of wool, animal, and sometimes cotton which gives great dimensional stability to a garment. Fusible is a limp polyester product which, when glued to cloth, becomes rigid and thus mimics, to a limited extent, the effects of having canvas. Canvas is never fused because it would become very, very, VERY stiff. They are two very different things. If you did not open up the lining, it is virtually impossible that what you did was pull the fusing off the cloth. I would say it is completely impossible but then gdl would appear to say he does it all the time. Juste pour me contrarier The facings and pocketings and inner structure are all sewn together so they don't move around, whether it is fused or not, and probably what you did was rip apart all this tacking. But let us hypothesize about what you may have done by ripping off the fusing; by doing this, there is no longer any support for the front at all, since it is just a loose, limp polyester membrane floating around, which, the next time the coat is pressed, will partially refuse to the front and you will have a big mess. You certainly do not have anything resembling a floating canvas. So best case scenario you have just rippd apart a lot of the inner structure of the coat. Worst case scenario you actually did separate the fusible, in which case you had better never have your coat cleaned or pressed. In either scenario, not a very good thing to do to a coat.

There were several different USA manufacturer's , the last ones not being very good. The stuff that Mark Shale use to carry was fully canvassed and spectacular.

Thanks for the correction about canvas never being fused, Jeffrey, but I beg to differ about having destroyed this coat. Look, as I've said, I did NOT rip a single stitch in this entire process. I know what a ripped stitch sounds and feels like, and I didn't do it. I have not removed any tacking, nor have I done anything to the lapel canvas. The construction of the jacket is in no way affected, aside from a decidely more flexible and soft feel throughout the chestpiece, within which now "floats" (call it would you will) the soft detached fusible (except where tacked down by the pockets, darts, seams, and button holes). Accordingly, I must conclude that it is in fact NOT impossible to uniformly and neatly detach fusible. (Rare and bizarre, I'll grant you.) I'm unfamiliar with gdl's similar experiences, and I certainly don't plan on making a habit of doing something which I admit probably SHOULD be impossible, but since in this case it was so easily accomplished, and with the suit itself being almost a throwaway, I decided to experiment. I'm amused by the confounding results. I do hear your warning, Jeffrey, about "re-fusing," but before going forward in the first place I checked on a discrete corner of the detached fusible: a firm pressing with an iron did not re-attach it to the wool, or, when folded, to itself. I'm thinking the stuff is like a used band-aid--you can't stick it twice. Thanks for all your thoughts and insights on this curious phenomenon. I'll be sure to post an update after a proper dry cleaning ;-)

Originally Posted by jefferyd

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No. Not at all. Canvas is a woven product made of wool, animal, and sometimes cotton which gives great dimensional stability to a garment. Fusible is a limp polyester product which, when glued to cloth, becomes rigid and thus mimics, to a limited extent, the effects of having canvas. Canvas is never fused because it would become very, very, VERY stiff. They are two very different things. If you did not open up the lining, it is virtually impossible that what you did was pull the fusing off the cloth. I would say it is completely impossible but then gdl would appear to say he does it all the time. Juste pour me contrarier

The facings and pocketings and inner structure are all sewn together so they don't move around, whether it is fused or not, and probably what you did was rip apart all this tacking. But let us hypothesize about what you may have done by ripping off the fusing; by doing this, there is no longer any support for the front at all, since it is just a loose, limp polyester membrane floating around, which, the next time the coat is pressed, will partially refuse to the front and you will have a big mess. You certainly do not have anything resembling a floating canvas. So best case scenario you have just rippd apart a lot of the inner structure of the coat. Worst case scenario you actually did separate the fusible, in which case you had better never have your coat cleaned or pressed. In either scenario, not a very good thing to do to a coat.

Someone should take a chance at this made in US polo suit then

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tab%3DWatching

19.99 (assuming no reserve), probably a good deal if someone decide to cut things up and find out (assuming this post does not end up driving price up )

no, I am not the seller, was thinking of getting it until I realized it was double pleated pant with high rise...

I've had a similar experience.

In my early trials of learning how to tell a canvassed jacket from a fused one, I did the pinch test on a MTM jacket I knew was fully canvased vs. an (obviously) fused Lauren by RL jacket. During my trials, I got a little hasty in my testing and pulled the fused canvas piece away from the wool on the Lauren jacket. I could distinctly feel the previously-fused canvassing between the two pieces of wool.

I do wonder what this sort of thing does to a fused jacket in the long-run. Not that I'll be wearing that old Lauren jacket anyway. But it's an interesting question.

The canvas fibers were probably coarser than usual and over time and handling caught themselves in the fibers of the suiting fabric. What you did was harmless. The jacket was probably not fused.

Originally Posted by Alias

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The canvas fibers were probably coarser than usual and over time and handling caught themselves in the fibers of the suiting fabric. What you did was harmless. The jacket was probably not fused.

+1 This would have been my guess too.

It often happens with older jackets in my experience.

And for what it's worth, all POLO made in the US jackets I have ever seen were fully canvassed.