Which OTR suit lines fit square shoulders? Can collar roll be fixed?

[compuccesory]

I have probably tried on a hundred suit jackets at this point and 95% of them have collar roll for me. Every single Men's Wearhouse/JaB/Macys suit I have tried has collar roll. Every single Bonobos, every single Suitsupply (although the Sienna comes tantalizingly close to fitting), every single Canali, every single Brioni(I found one (1) Brioni in a very soft material that worked, I took a photo of the tag and will go back next time I need a $5,500 suit I guess), I almost suspect that suitmakers give their jackets collar roll on purpose and I am supposed to somehow fix them later in alterations.

I would like to say that no amount of money in the world will get me an OTR jacket without collar roll, except oddly enough, J.Crew's Ludlow suits seem to fit well enough that in a certain size range with no collar roll, even at JC Factory I can find a few jackets in different materials that fit. Banana Republic suits also seem to at least get pretty close, but their stores don't stock jackets in my size. In both JCrew and BR, the jackets have all kinds of other issues - I usually need to take at least 2.5" off the sleeves, sometimes 3", and the jackets are at least 1.5" too long.

I have a couple of MTM jackets that fit perfectly in the shoulders so it's possible, but I also have an MTM suit that doesn't and apparently can't be fixed. Even with MTM it seems to be a crapshoot based on whatever base model they start with. I do want to get into OTR suiting though, to take advantage of low prices for nice suits.

So first question: Does anyone else have this problem? What brands/lines of OTR suits best accommodate my (I guess) very blocky shoulders?

2nd question: CAN collar roll be completely fixed through alterations? I have read multiple threads here on this forum and the answer seems kind of ambiguous. The tailors who post here seem to say that it can, but the way they describe how the whole back needs to be opened up and realigned makes it seem really difficult and expensive. Various resources on the internet mostly say that it might be fixable depending on which one of the several possible causes is causing it. Every suit salesman assures me that it is an easy fix, but I have also consulted with multiple tailors of varying degrees of experience who all say that it is unfixable or only at great expense. I even went ahead and attempted a fix on a Zegna sport coat I thrifted, and the result wasn't very encouraging - essentially the collar was lowered enough that the roll was essentially flush with it, but at any closer distance you could still see something wasn't quite right. Maybe the suit salespeople are correct and I have just managed to run into a string of bad tailors, but I didn't want to spend potentially thousands of dollars to find out.

 

[Anachronist]

Would it be possible for you to post a picture of you wearing a jacket that displays the type of collar rolling you are referring to (don’t need the full head in the picture if you wish to remain anonymous, just up to the neck will do). There are different types of collar rolling with different reasons. I have experienced the same with most RTW jackets and in my case it’s a combination of rather wide shoulders and voluminous chest that don‘t correlate with today’s ideal of a small skinny androgynous man ;-(

 

[Jan Capek]

Yes, Anachronist is correct. There are various causes to the roll: a) the jacket is too tight to accommodate your breadth, b) your shoulders do not have the traditional slope the designer wanted you to have, c) your traps are smaller than he wished you had, d) your neck is shorter than he had in mind for you... And so on and so forth.

The roll is a very annoying thing and you have the right to be frustrated. Why suit producers of RTW suits haven't tackled this issue by creating an "athletic line" is a mystery to me (a bit like why do we call it a "neck roll" or "collar roll"?).

Depending on the cause, a skilled tailor will be able to fix a mild roll, I give you my word. He will do so either by hiding ("pulling up") some of the excess cloth under the neck seam, or by widening the upper back (or combination of the two). I would not call this the most difficult alteration, but it is not an "easy fix" if you want good results. For instance, if your tailor isn't conscientious or skilled enough, you might end up with off-balance shoulders, horizontal creases hidden under the collar (not so bad if they don't protrude out), a disturbed pattern (most notably on checkered suits), too rigid seaming, neck gap etc.

There is one company I learned to adore - Pal Zileri. Where I live the prices are extremely reasonable (500 dollars for a fully canvassed suit of a very passable cloth) and what I would call the best value for money. I have a few regular-day-at-the-office suits from PZ, and my tailor can make the back look almost "bespoke". Perhaps it is just my luck, but do give them a shot. As someone who experiences minor rolls with (esp. Italian) RTW suits, I can recommend this company over any other.