Unfunded Liabilities: a/k/a The Cloth Thread

[bjhofkin]

At least in Asia, VBC is an order of magnitude cheaper...I enjoy my VBC flannel more than I should.

Not a factor for me – I think all those cloths will be more or less the same price for me. The only thing that changes that is if they contain cashmere or other precious fibers.

 

[Sreezy36]

My two favorites out of the dugdale samples I just received.
Air Force blue woollen and worsted twisted twill 18oz (invincible bunch)

mid grey marled twill 18oz (Fearnought)

 

[JHWilliams]

I know I've been talking a lot about the T&L/Arthur Harrison 2080 worsted flannel…but for reasons not worth going into here it might not be a possibility for the project I have in mind.

Given that, favorite(s) among the following? I'm looking for a (relatively) heavyweight dark navy/midnight flannel, either worsted or woolen.

- Drapers (VBC) Lady Sanfelice flannel (340g)​

- Fox classic flannel (370g)​

- Harrisons of Edinburgh woolen spun flannel (420g)​

- other​

Obviously the Minnis bunch would ordinarily be a good option – but their darkest blue isn't dark enough.

just a suggestion:
Why not invest in a length of proper blazer cloth (Hopsack, serge)
You can be creative with buttons, styling, etc

Then, invest in a proper navy flannel suit with conservative horn buttons. You will fall in love with the soft hand of the lady sanfelice. It almost feels like it is woven with cashmere.

I have never been a fan of mixing suit jackets with odd trousers.

 

[sensuki]

Just wondering if anyone has had AIT-001 made up from Anglo-Italian? Considering it for my next jacket

 

[bjhofkin]

just a suggestion:
Why not invest in a length of proper blazer cloth (Hopsack, serge)
You can be creative with buttons, styling, etc

Then, invest in a proper navy flannel suit with conservative horn buttons. You will fall in love with the soft hand of the lady sanfelice. It almost feels like it is woven with cashmere.

I have never been a fan of mixing suit jackets with odd trousers.

It's a fair question.

The main reason is (and I know we disagree on this) that I think a navy flannel jacket can be a TRUE blazer and not just a suit coat being used as a blazer.

Also…I don't like "conservative" suit buttons. The most conservative I'd ever go is dark brown. I love horn with its natural variegation, for much the same reason I love vegetable-tanned leather. And I don't have the need for a suit that's so formal that it can't have brown horn.

(As an aside, I think I recall your saying a few pages back that you don't like brown horn with navy. We can just agree to disagree on that as it's strictly a matter of taste.)

All that being said…I do think I'll ultimately wear the navy flannel jacket with its trousers 90% of the time – and indeed make a dedicated heavyweight navy blazer. So we get to the same place in the end.

Much appreciated Re your Lady Sanfelice recommendation – that is likely how I'm leaning.

 

[Sreezy36]

just a suggestion:
Why not invest in a length of proper blazer cloth (Hopsack, serge)
You can be creative with buttons, styling, etc

Then, invest in a proper navy flannel suit with conservative horn buttons. You will fall in love with the soft hand of the lady sanfelice. It almost feels like it is woven with cashmere.

I have never been a fan of mixing suit jackets with odd trousers.

I agree and disagree. Both serge and hopsack are “tweener” cloths that can be easily used for both suiting and jacketing. In some ways, flannel has that characteristic as well(up for debate). Depending on the spec or customization details, the garment can be a clear cut suit, blazer/sport jacket, or both. The outcome ultimately depends on the goal or intended purpose for the garment. I believe in having all three types for the purpose maximum utility. However, if I had to choose one of the 3 types of garments I would choose the kind that can work as both a sports jacket and suit.

 

[dieworkwear]

I agree and disagree. Both serge and hopsack are “tweener” cloths that can be easily used for both suiting and jacketing. In some ways, flannel has that characteristic as well(up for debate). Depending on the spec or customization details, the garment can be a clear cut suit, blazer/sport jacket, or both. The outcome ultimately depends on the goal or intended purpose for the garment. I believe in having all three types for the purpose maximum utility. However, if I had to choose one of the 3 types of garments I would choose the kind that can work as both a sports jacket and suit.

I find that there's a lot of diversity in hopsack. Some I would only use as a sport coat; others I would only use as a suit. Really depends on the hopsack. For example, I have a Cacciopoli wool-cashmere hopsack that has a very chunky weave that wouldn't work for pants. My Harrison Oyster fabric, technically a hopsack, is so fine that it's best for a suit.

I've seen less variety with serge, and all the ones I've come across seem like sport coat fabrics to me. My only serge is a Fox serge, and it would be beastly as a suit.

 

[Sreezy36]

Here are three different serges at different weights
Top: Bateman Ogden Apollo 430gms
Middle: dugdale invincible 400gms
Bottom: Holland Sherry serge and solana 280gms

these are all technically suitable for suiting and jacketing. Although, the Bateman does feel slightly more suitable for jacketing because of its soft texture and the Holland and Sherry serge has the appearance of a standard worsted suiting twill. Even though I will agree that there is a bit of variation in regards to cloth like hopsack and serge, the styling details (pockets, buttons, construction, lapel stitching) and specifications have the most important impact regarding the overall appearance of the garment(suit/blazer/sj/both) Especially when the cloth is not clearly of the suiting or jacketing only variety.

 

[konstantis]

Does anyone have swatches of the herringbone linens (Tullaree) of Spence Bryson ? I contacted them but they dont have shade cards to send me. Thanks.

 

[bernoulli]

Same here. I even had a jacket-only hopsack for an entire suit and it worked but there are some bunches I would not dare try. There are hopsacks and hopsacks.

I find that there's a lot of diversity in hopsack. Some I would only use as a sport coat; others I would only use as a suit. Really depends on the hopsack. For example, I have a Cacciopoli wool-cashmere hopsack that has a very chunky weave that wouldn't work for pants. My Harrison Oyster fabric, technically a hopsack, is so fine that it's best for a suit.

I've seen less variety with serge, and all the ones I've come across seem like sport coat fabrics to me. My only serge is a Fox serge, and it would be beastly as a suit.

 

[yanagi]

I find that there's a lot of diversity in hopsack. Some I would only use as a sport coat; others I would only use as a suit. Really depends on the hopsack. For example, I have a Cacciopoli wool-cashmere hopsack that has a very chunky weave that wouldn't work for pants. My Harrison Oyster fabric, technically a hopsack, is so fine that it's best for a suit.

I agree. I initially chose a fabric from Holland & Sherry City of London for my wedding suit because I liked the color. It was only when I double checked the code at home that I realized it was a hopsack; I didn't notice it at all in the shop. At that point, I already knew the wedding was taking place on a Sunday, so I just went with it.

 

[Sreezy36]

I agree. I initially chose a fabric from Holland & Sherry City of London for my wedding suit because I liked the color. It was only when I double checked the code at home that I realized it was a hopsack; I didn't notice it at all in the shop. At that point, I already knew the wedding was taking place on a Sunday, so I just went with it.

Before deciding on the Airesco 4ply for my current project, I considered the city of London Navy hopsack. The City of London hopsack is densely woven and has a slight sheen. It leans more towards a “suiting hopsack” than a true jacketing only hopsack. However, if one were to spec this particular cloth with casual details such as: soft tailoring, swelled edges, patch pockets, metal buttons I can’t imagine it not working well as a navy blazer. Like wise, if someone spec’d the cloth with flap or patch pockets, brown horn buttons, and edge stitching on the lapels it has just enough texture to work as a sports jacket and suit. I also tend to find that heavier weight 370g + hopsacks generally work well as both a jacket and suit. In contrast lighter weight hopsacks 280-350g are usually jacketing only.

 

[JHWilliams]

It's a fair question.

The main reason is (and I know we disagree on this) that I think a navy flannel jacket can be a TRUE blazer and not just a suit coat being used as a blazer.

Also…I don't like "conservative" suit buttons. The most conservative I'd ever go is dark brown. I love horn with its natural variegation, for much the same reason I love vegetable-tanned leather. And I don't have the need for a suit that's so formal that it can't have brown horn.

(As an aside, I think I recall your saying a few pages back that you don't like brown horn with navy. We can just agree to disagree on that as it's strictly a matter of taste.)

All that being said…I do think I'll ultimately wear the navy flannel jacket with its trousers 90% of the time – and indeed make a dedicated heavyweight navy blazer. So we get to the same place in the end.

Much appreciated Re your Lady Sanfelice recommendation – that is likely how I'm leaning.

I’m not a fan of brown buttons with a navy suit (but who am I to judge?). If you love it, that’s all that matters.
I think you will have much more longevity strictly using the sanfelice as a suit. Once you try on the basted fitting, you will fall in love with this cloth.
The blazer (any cloth you select) will be a great “beater” garment without causing undue stress on your beautiful flannel suit jacket.

 

[bjhofkin]

Some great takes the last couple pages on the Lady Sanfelice vs Harrisons flannels.

I also included Fox 370g in the last – but not sure anyone has said anything on that possibility. Seems closer in spirit to the Drapers, but a bit heavier (which is good).

Only thing is that the Fox navy is too light in color for me, but the dark navy is DARK – a true midnight.

Anyone have both Lady Sanfelice and Fox, or otherwise in a position to compare them directly?

 

[JHWilliams]

Some great takes the last couple pages on the Lady Sanfelice vs Harrisons flannels.

I also included Fox 370g in the last – but not sure anyone has said anything on that possibility. Seems closer in spirit to the Drapers, but a bit heavier (which is good).

Only thing is that the Fox navy is too light in color for me, but the dark navy is DARK – a true midnight.

Anyone have both Lady Sanfelice and Fox, or otherwise in a position to compare them directly?

avoid Fox flannel unless you’re going for something heavy (is what I have been told)

take a look at Steven Hitchcock’s Instagram page. You will find him wearing his new Lady Sanfelice navy chalkstripe DB suit. A beautiful shade of navy.