Tom Mahon: An Englishcut in New York

[Michael Ay329]

Sator merely points out the nostalgia of A&S is a perhaps a lot of hype when it comes to pattern drafting

JeffreyD, the only one amongst us learned enough in RTW pattern drafting notes perhaps the inaccuracies of Tom's comments on RTW pattern drafting

What better place than an open forum like SF to air out comments about those who are subjectively held in high esteem by some vocal members of this forum, but whose product is perhaps not to some of our liking on an aesthetic or technical level. In the end, look at his final product, if you like it...pay for it...mind you it was a minority style of drafting created to make a larger false chest for short and corpulent men...but now marketed as THE style for men's suits and odd jackets.

Although Steed is thrown into this mosh pit too...but I find his product to be a mixture of Edwin's prior experiences/training with tailors making elegant structured patterns.

With that aside, I commend Tom for hosting such an event and raffle...especially from a man who always reminds us that he is so busy, that he can not take on any new clients

 

[George]

Originally Posted by Michael Ay329

Sator merely points out the nostalgia of A&S is a perhaps a lot of hype when it comes to pattern drafting JeffreyD, the only one amongst us learned enough in RTW pattern drafting notes perhaps the inaccuracies of Tom's comments on RTW pattern drafting What better place than an open forum like SF to air out comments about those who are subjectively held in high esteem by some vocal members of this forum, but whose product is perhaps not to some of our liking on an aesthetic or technical level. In the end, look at his final product, if you like it...pay for it...mind you it was a minority style of drafting created to make a larger false chest for short and corpulent men...but now marketed as THE style for men's suits and odd jackets. Although Steed is thrown into this mosh pit too...but I find his product to be a mixture of Edwin's prior experiences/training with tailors making elegant structured patterns. With that aside, I commend Tom for hosting such an event and raffle...especially from a man who always reminds us that he is so busy, that he can not take on any new clients
Why are you always so amiable? I mean what kind of lawyer are you? It's really is quite disconcerting...

 

[radicaldog]

I wish somebody could take the time to start a threak explaining many of the forvm fixations through a psychological account of the connection between liking Drape and wanting to be an internet primadonna.

(I like it well enough, teh Drape, btw. So I guess it's not a biconditional.)

 

[academe]

I suppose you're probably just trying to keep the peace (as opposed to being an apologist), but I think JefferyD and Sator's snarky comments should be called what they are. I know that there is a lot of respect on the forumz for both of these very knowledgeable members, but I don't think that necessarily excuses rudeness. There were perhaps half-a-dozen different ways that they could have stated their opinions that were less aggressive or combative...

What I am surprised about is how seriously some of Tom's comments are taken, and the lengths that some members will go to to use any excuse to attack him and the A&S style. It perhaps reflects more on the posters' personal feelings towards Tom or the A&S style, more than anything else.

Sator: We get it. You hate drape. You think Tom is a clown. You have a whole forum of your own to devote to your ravings and rantings... So why thread-sh** here?

Originally Posted by Michael Ay329

Sator merely points out the nostalgia of A&S is a perhaps a lot of hype when it comes to pattern drafting

JeffreyD, the only one amongst us learned enough in RTW pattern drafting notes perhaps the inaccuracies of Tom's comments on RTW pattern drafting

What better place than an open forum like SF to air out comments about those who are subjectively held in high esteem by some vocal members of this forum, but whose product is perhaps not to some of our liking on an aesthetic or technical level. In the end, look at his final product, if you like it...pay for it...mind you it was a minority style of drafting created to make a larger false chest for short and corpulent men...but now marketed as THE style for men's suits and odd jackets.

Although Steed is thrown into this mosh pit too...but I find his product to be a mixture of Edwin's prior experiences/training with tailors making elegant structured patterns.

With that aside, I commend Tom for hosting such an event and raffle...especially from a man who always reminds us that he is so busy, that he can not take on any new clients

 

[Manton]

Honestly, I found Tom's comment about RTW patterns interesting. I don't know if it is true but I would like to know. Hearing opposing views is actually helpful.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by Manton

Honestly, I found Tom's comment about RTW patterns interesting. I don't know if it is true but I would like to know. Hearing opposing views is actually helpful.

How about uninformed views? I have lots of those.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by teddieriley

How about uninformed views? I have lots of those.

Isn't jeffryd in the RTW business?

 

[jefferyd]

Originally Posted by Manton

Isn't jeffryd in the RTW business?

Yes, I am, and I think I was being as polite as was warranted, under the circumstances. One might say that Mahon threw the first punch by ******** on RTW with a laughable assertion.

Patterns are revised and sometimes remade entirely every season, demographic and sizing data is analyzed constantly, and new grade rules are developed to reflect changing morphology within different market segments.

So, no, we most certainly do not use old patterns drafted when people stood differently. Take shots at RTW for the areas in which it fails and I will happily accept them. Just don't make **** up in order to sell your product.

 

[teddieriley]

Originally Posted by jefferyd

So, no, we most certainly do not use old patterns drafted when people stood differently. Take shots at RTW for the areas in which it fails and I will happily accept them. Just don't make **** up in order to sell your product.

Word.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by Manton

Honestly, I found Tom's comment about RTW patterns interesting. I don't know if it is true but I would like to know. Hearing opposing views is actually helpful.

Agreed; I don't know enough about the RTW tailoring business to comment either way about Tom's views on RTW, and it would have been enlightening to see some informed discussion about this. How much, for example, is his opinion guided by his experience of the British high street RTW market (which is much more low or mid-market)? How different is the pattern making made for the UK high street compared the higher-end RTW market in the US and on continental Europe, etc.? What I object to is petty vindictive snarkiness. It's irritating and unhelpful.

 

[Manton]

Originally Posted by academe

Agreed; I don't know enough about the RTW tailoring business to comment either way about Tom's views on RTW, and it would have been enlightening to see some informed discussion about this. How much, for example, is his opinion guided by his experience of the British high street RTW market (which is much more low or mid-market)? How different is the pattern making made for the UK high street compared the higher-end RTW market in the US and on continental Europe, etc.? What I object to is petty vindictive snarkiness. It's irritating and unhelpful.

I agree that Sator is a shrill lunatic, or has become one (he didn't always used to be). That doesn't make him wrong in this instance.

Jeffryd is a lot more reasonable and I believe what he says.

As for what informed or motivated Tom's remark, I don't know. If I had to guess, I would guess that his experience with RTW manufacturing is neither very deep nor up to date.

 

[academe]

Originally Posted by jefferyd

Yes, I am, and I think I was being as polite as was warranted, under the circumstances. One might say that Mahon threw the first punch by ******** on RTW with a laughable assertion.

Patterns are revised and sometimes remade entirely every season, demographic and sizing data is analyzed constantly, and new grade rules are developed to reflect changing morphology within different market segments.

So, no, we most certainly do not use old patterns drafted when people stood differently. Take shots at RTW for the areas in which it fails and I will happily accept them. Just don't make **** up in order to sell your product.

Most of this is interesting and instructive. I do, however, think you're taking all this much more personally than was intended. Also, given your vested interest in RTW, it's not surprising that you have an opposing view. Just saying.

 

[jefferyd]

I don't take it personally. I have been very open about exposing many of the shortcomings of RTW on this forum and other places. I object to people, on both sides of the divide, confusing consumers with false assertions, whether it be about the ills of RTW or the fabled "floating chest piece".

 

[Redwoood]

Originally Posted by Manton

[...]
As for what informed or motivated Tom's remark, I don't know. If I had to guess, I would guess that his experience with RTW manufacturing is neither very deep nor up to date.

Didn't he 'consult' on some line of school uniforms? He must have had some exposure to RTW manufacturing then. Maybe his comment was based on what he saw there.
As with anything else, making a very general statement is bound to draw some flak.
Anyway, I'd take JefferyD's comments on RTW patterns over Mahon's any day.

 

[Despos]

Originally Posted by radicaldog

I wish somebody could take the time to start a threak explaining many of the forvm fixations through a psychological account of the connection between liking Drape and wanting to be an internet primadonna.

(I like it well enough, teh Drape, btw. So I guess it's not a biconditional.)

My card,

Mel Johnson

Internet Sartorial Psychotherapist

We use a sophisticated, modern approach of looking at your WAYWRN shots and then compile information of your family of origin history to accurately diagnose your propensity to drape, unpadded shoulders and even 2" cuffs. We only diagnose issues and bring the facts into the "light", we can't "fix" you.