The Ultimate Toronto Thread

[DWFII]



@DWFII
 what is/ was your first impression of this, for instance? 

I don't generally comment on quality specific to a particular maker.

I guess my only comment is a question: from a subjective POV, are they better or worse than other brands in that price range?

 

[TOstyle]

Completely fair - I view value as relative within a quality/price range mix, and then how that particular product fits within higher or lower quality/price options. It gets to be a matrix really quick. And to your point, just saying one thing is better than another isn't helpful, since that doesn't give a proper frame of reference. Plus, far too often the proxy for "better" is "more expensive", which really isn't the case.

 

[DWFII]



Completely fair - I view value as relative within a quality/price range mix, and then how that particular product fits within higher or lower quality/price options. It gets to be a matrix really quick. And to your point, just saying one thing is better than another isn't helpful, since that doesn't give a proper frame of reference. Plus, far too often the proxy for "better" is "more expensive", which really isn't the case.

Well just to be clear, from the perspective of a shoemaker I have no problem saying "one thing is better than another." I just don't like to single out any one maker (I have my own weaknesses so I hesitate to throw stones).

I started a thread called "Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions..." in which I posted a number of shoes and critiqued them. But they were never named or associated with their maker. In some cases, I was not trying to be "kind" so much as objective.

That said, it's easy...and all too often false...to say that "more expensive" doesn't always mean "better." Sure, that can be true...but just as often things are more expensive because better materials and better techniques are used to create them.

The thing that always sticks out for me about all that is to wonder if we didn't live in a world or a culture that was so invested in cheap and fast...if we didn't live in a culture that has universally bought into the paradigm of "marketing as truth"...whether things wouldn't settle out to where more expensive wasn't, in fact, the equivalent of better.

If things were priced according to objective value, wouldn't "better" always be more expensive than merely "good?"

--

 

[Allen Dreadmon]

Great thread. Subscribed.

I've been to Leatherfoot many times and have never had a bad experience. I usually go in wearing very casual weekend clothes and beater shoes.

 

[NickInTO]

If you were wondering where all of those Drake's ties from Holt's went (that's not me, by the way)...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/merchant/fi..._mPrRngCbx=1&_udlo=&_udhi=&_sop=12&rmvSB=true

 

[borbor]

yup. mine's on ebay as well.

his store is actually one that i follow. Always wanted to know where that guy gets his other stuff.

 

[TRINI]

Robert Jones in RBC is having a sale. Some ties (Barbera, Bigi, Pal Zileri) are $39 each, 3 for $100.

Dress shirts, $99. Some outerwear, suits and sportcoats are half price.

 

[othertravel]

Thanks for the heads up. Were the ties any good?

Remember last year they had a ton of yellow, green and brown ties (good quality ties, but colour variation was lacking).

 

[TRINI]

I may have gotten the best ones IMO but there was a blue wool PZ paisley there as well as a burgundy version that was very nice but slimmer than what I like.

 

[Chambertin]

Quote:
I happen to know the individual. I think he normally gets his stuff in Italy, via some of kind of connection(s) to the industry. Thanks for starting this thread, it's been great. I hope to contribute a tiny bit.

 

[scatterbrain]



Robert Jones in RBC is having a sale. Some ties (Barbera, Bigi, Pal Zileri) are $39 each, 3 for $100.

Dress shirts, $99. Some outerwear, suits and sportcoats are half price.

Thanks for posting. I didn't even know this place existed.

 

[TRINI]



Thanks for posting. I didn't even know this place existed.

NP.

I forgot to add that they have shoes on sale as well. Can't recall off hand if any of them were Edward Green or not.

 

[othertravel]



NP.

I forgot to add that they have shoes on sale as well. Can't recall off hand if any of them were Edward Green or not.

I checked out the shoe sale last week, and there were a few EGs. But not a substantial selection.

They did however have a pair of Malvern's in grey mist calf for $499. It was 7.5/8. If it was a half size bigger, it would have fit me.

Can you post pics of your haul?

We do get some good deals in TO. The Harry Rosen outlet had Corneliani knit ties for $5 a few years back, and Zegna Couture ties for $15.

Other highlights include Samuelsohn suits for $199, Zegna suits for $399 and Samuelsohn SCs for $99.

 

[akoustas]

Not a ton at Robert Jones as far as ties go. Mostly yellows (as mentioned) but there were a few really nice ones if you dig (just redundant with what I have).

They did have some nice sports coats and suits on sale, mostly Samuehlson, all under $1000 which is a nice price point. There was an interesting Cantarelli in a wonderful light summer fabric that's a steal at 900, but I'm not sure I could pull off a bold check. May go back.

 

[TOstyle]

Well just to be clear, from the perspective of a shoemaker I have no problem saying "one thing is better than another." I just don't like to single out any one maker (I have my own weaknesses so I hesitate to throw stones).

I started a thread called "Shoemaking Techniques and Traditions..." in which I posted a number of shoes and critiqued them. But they were never named or associated with their maker. In some cases, I was not trying to be "kind" so much as objective.

That said, it's easy...and all too often false...to say that "more expensive" doesn't always mean "better." Sure, that can be true...but just as often things are more expensive because better materials and better techniques are used to create them.

The thing that always sticks out for me about all that is to wonder if we didn't live in a world or a culture that was so invested in cheap and fast...if we didn't live in a culture that has universally bought into the paradigm of "marketing as truth"...whether things wouldn't settle out to where more expensive wasn't, in fact, the equivalent of better.

If things were priced according to objective value, wouldn't "better" always be more expensive than merely "good?"

--

Sort of off-topic given how the rest of this conversation is going, but wanted to complete the thought above.

Thanks for the link to that thread. There is so much content on here, and you've got 5,000+ posts that I couldn't slog through everything before asking the question.

To your point @DWFII if there was perfect information and uniform tastes then yes, more expensive would be strongly correlated to better. But those two assumptions aren't true in reality, and two consequences as a result.

First, because there is imperfect information on quality of materials and production, consumers can't properly evaluate the relative value of a good based on price alone. That means a "brand name" becomes a proxy for a level of quality, which means a brand name can command a premium, and allows manufacturers to trade off the brand name without necessarily increasing quality. Not the case for, say, John Lobb, but certainly the case for Kenneth Cole for example.

Second, if tastes are not all uniform then just because cashmere is more expensive to cultivate, weave and produce a jacket than wool, it doesn't mean it is better simply because it is more expensive. If I prefer the aesthetics, textures and performance of wool over silk, it would not mean silk is better (or vice-versa) -- it becomes subjective to this extent (and subject to your tastes being rational at least).

So better and more expensive could be a liner relationship, but only only the simplest model. And even the slightest of change, such as allowing for different tastes, blows even the theoretical model up. The consequence for a consumer in reality is there is a loose relationship at best (i.e., it can't be both really good and really cheap) and it takes a lot of work to figure it out. Hence why SF exists and I post on it...