Sole Welting

[TheWraith]

Okay, no good then. No idea how to help, thelonius then.

 

[YRR92]

Except that Blake is done to a groove in the outsole. And you see it. And it wicks moisture into the shoe.

Pump stitched is done to a channel that is sealed.

Yes, "pump stitched" or "channel stitched."

I think M. de Garsault describes the technique in his 1767 Art du Cordonnier . Remember this was way before cement

Blake stitch with closed channel* : pump stitching :: GYW : hand welting?

*I presume a shoemaker can do closed-channel stitching on a blake shoe, just as they can on a welted shoe.

 

[alexSF]

About Gemming Failure, from a nice C&J Factory Tour by Gentleman's Gazette:

One topic that has been mentioned from time to time in various on-line blogs is that of ‘gemming’ or ‘ribbing failure’, whereby the sole and uppers of the shoe supposedly part company catastrophically with the insole. It is not something I have ever come across in real life and when we are in the welting department I decide to raise the issue with James, who is rather dismissive of the idea:

‘We’ve never had a rib fail. We’ve been making shoes for 130 years and there is a reason why we are still making shoes in this way."

He points out that in a Goodyear welted shoe, the insole is effectively encased by the chainstitch of the welt and the lockstitch of the upper. Although C&J have a fairly active repairs department looking after shoes that are returned for resoling (some of whose owners appear to treat their shoes with a degree of abuse and neglect I find surprising), they have never had a pair of shoes returned that have had rib failure.

 

[DWFII]



*I presume a shoemaker can do closed-channel stitching on a blake shoe, just as they can on a welted shoe.

I don't think the machines are engineered to do that. Have you...has anyone...ever seen a Blake shoe that had a closed channel?

 

[YRR92]

I don't think the machines are engineered to do that. Have you...has anyone...ever seen a Blake shoe that had a closed channel?

Not IRL, no. I was under the impression that the channel was closed on a separate machine from the one the sole was stitched on, but I suppose that's not the case.

 

[TheWraith]



About Gemming Failure, from a nice C&J Factory Tour by Gentleman's Gazette:

I thought so. Others in the know in this thread have reported the same.

 

[kentyman]

Bonwelt is simply a fake welt strip used to make a Blake or cemented shoe look like a welted or Blake Rapid shoe.

Functionally the only difference between Blake stitched and Blake stitched with a Bonwelt is cosmetic; the Bonwelted shoe has a fake welt glued to the upper edges of the sole.

Ah, thank you; that was my confusion.

To recap, Bonwelt is not a construction but rather a type of cosmetic faux "welt" used on Blake or cemented shoes. The incongruent stitching between the "welt" and outsole proves that it could not be Blake/Rapid, and the stitching on the outsole suggested that it's Blake instead of cemented, although it is not impossible that a company could put faux stitching on the outsole of a cemented shoe.

I am not a great fan of topy...for personal reasons...but I would recommend it in this case to, yes, put off having to replace the outsole as long as possible. If you're assiduously observant, you may never have to replace the outsole. I put it on my wife's pump stitched shoes...she likes it and I didn't want to fool with having to hand stitch another outsole before its time.

I think I'm convinced. Would you suggest adding a topy ASAP to prevent any possible moisture wicking from ever occurring, or is there a reason to "break in" the shoes first?

Also, any specific recommendations regarding the topy? I think you said before that you would have it cover the entire outsole. Sadly, I'm not as keen on the look of that.

 

[DWFII]



I think I'm convinced. Would you suggest adding a topy ASAP to prevent any possible moisture wicking from ever occurring, or is there a reason to "break in" the shoes first?

I would do it immediately. Once you wear the shoes at all...and the problems gets worse the more you wear them...you will grind so much dirt and so forth into the outsoles that to do the job correctly the outsole will have to be ground away slightly. That may impact the integrity of the stitches. Which would defeat the purpose.

 

[DWFII]



Okay, no good then. No idea how to help, thelonius then.

You help him. You or maybe someone else who is "in the know"...even though they have never made a shoe or boot, never even seen any of their own shoes torn apart; and can't be bothered to read other people's remarks in their entirety, much less even look at photos. I fear anything I say would fall on deaf ears, in any event.

What do I gain by giving the advice I give? What do I gain?

What does C&J have to gain?

 

[TheWraith]

If you note, I did not use a question mark in my above post. Therefore, I was not asking a question of you, I was making a statement, saying that I have no idea how to help thelonius with his issue of the inner lining cracking due to his feet sweating. Has nothing to do with C&J, or making shoes etc. that you bring up. You need to pay better attention, DW, and maybe don't be so uptight *sheesh*

 

[Roger la Rock]

I don't think the machines are engineered to do that. Have you...has anyone...ever seen a Blake shoe that had a closed channel?

I have some from before I knew better. Fluevogs, corrected grain, yes I know. They have Blake stitching inside and a closed channel. My understanding, but I could be wrong, is that they were made in a factory in Vietnam belonging to the Japanese maker Perfetto.

 

[kentyman]

I would do it immediately. Once you wear the shoes at all...and the problems gets worse the more you wear them...you will grind so much dirt and so forth into the outsoles that to do the job correctly the outsole will have to be ground away slightly. That may impact the integrity of the stitches. Which would defeat the purpose.

Good to know. I haven't worn them outside even once, so I'm glad I asked. Thank you.

Do you still feel covering the entire outsole is necessary? There's something about leaving the arch leather exposed that looks better to me, though I understand this would allow moisture in through the arch stitches if I was ever really tromping around. That's not my plan, however.

 

[thelonius]



Okay, no good then. No idea how to help, thelonius then.

Thanks for the idea TW. No, I don't think talc is the answer. I don't think it's a problem particular to me, although everyone differs of course. Chemical aggression from the interior is definitely an important source of shoe deterioration as far as I'm concerned and I've heard other people mention it, but I haven't come across any particular treatments to protect the interior surfaces. I thought of adding a leather insole with active carbon layer, the sort one can find for sale easily and renew regularly, but adding an extra layer fills the shoes up more and may distort them. An such a layer would not protect the linings either.

 

[RogerP]



About Gemming Failure, from a nice C&J Factory Tour by Gentleman's Gazette:

Thank Alex. It's good to see this being squarely addressed by others.

Thelonius - I wish I had a suggestion to help you, but I've never experienced that problem.

 

[MSchapiro]

thelonius,

I have the same problem. I found that wearing smart wool socks really mitigates the problem. Cotton really lets my sweat through, but the wool socks not as much.