Orbita 6-watch winder - just bought one

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

It’s the equivalent of purchasing a Alpa 12 SW and complaining that you have to adjust everything yourself, and that you wish to add an auto winding rotor to it to speed up the process, when in reality, many other more ‘practical’ cameras exist. Jon.
If we're using a camera analogy, it would be similar to a Contax (I/II/III/IIa/IIIa) camera with its extremely complex shutter. The Alpa 12 is a rather simple camera.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by LabelKing

If we're using a camera analogy, it would be similar to a Contax (I/II/III/IIa/IIIa) camera with its extremely complex shutter.

The Alpa 12 is a rather simple camera.

My point wasn't about complexity of the watch (a perpetual calendar is hardly a "˜complex' watch), but rather the manual necessity of its adjustment. And I was comparing the most manual camera which is still produced today AND is very high-end.

Jon.

 

[LabelKing]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

My point wasn't about complexity of the watch (a perpetual calendar is hardly a "˜complex' watch), but rather the manual necessity of its adjustment. And I was comparing the most manual camera which is still produced today AND is very high-end.

Jon.

Yes, but you also bring up the expensive and tedious maintenance of the perpetual calendar which is more akin to the Contax's shutter than it is with the Alpa.

For what it's worth, Alpa-philes don't really think the current Alpa is a "true" Alpa as it's 120 format and most importantly, where's the reverse film-wind?

 

[DMcG]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Yes, but its still putting constant pressure on the winding arm and parts which aren't designed to take it.

Aren't many good winders designed so that they have rest periods in order to eliminate the issue of constant pressure?

 

[imageWIS]

dbl

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by gdl203

It's not all about practicality.

If it's not about practicality, how can you advocate a watch winder which is all about practicality?

it is generally not recommended to re-adjust time, date, moonphases too often on a perpetual calendar because of the number of different engaged gears and the blackout time periods.

That's a really ridiculous argument, for even in a simple date watch you have to follow the same rule: too close to midnight in any direction and you could damage the gears if you adjust the date. On a Perp Cal. though, you just have to watch out for not only the date but the end of a month as well, it's that big of a deal that will cause some sort of massive head ache and lack usability of the watch to the owner.

Not to mention that if you make a mistake in setting some of the parameters (e.g. you go too far in setting the time and move to the next day), you may have to go through an absoulte nightmare to revert to the right time/date/year/moonphase.

It really isn't though, and if you take your time, you won't screw up. But in the case that you do, that's why there are individual pushers for the different functions, so that you can change each indicator separately from the rest. Anyways, the whole point of a Perp Cal. Watch is to where it everyday (or wind it everyday), so that it's always on time.

So it is simply safer to keep it wound at all times - of course, one can remember to wind it every day but to be on the safer side (again), most perpetual owners keep them on a winder. It's not necessarily a statement about a noble tradition vs. practicality.

One can actually argue that watch winders are also great pieces of craftmanship so there is an argument right there for owning one that speaks to you as an object.

You don't get it: it's worse for the watch to be constantly on the winder, to have the rotor always activated, to have the mainspring always at around the same tension, having the watch run in a way it wasn't designed to run. Over time, it will cause damage to its internal parts.

So, just like zjpj previously posted about vintage Ferrari drivers that stupidly race their cars on a track and crash them as if they know better, we have to go with what is correct due to the unofficial and completely improvable consensus that all perpetual watch owners keep their watches on winders?

Jon.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by DMcG

Aren't many good winders designed so that they have rest periods in order to eliminate the issue of constant pressure?

Yes, but its still constant pressure at a constant pace for a certain period of time, every day, of unnatural tension to the watch. And the mainspring is never allowed to fully relax and is always left with some tension, which will after a while damage the mainspring.

Jon.

 

[gdl203]

You obviously don't know too much about this so I'll leave it at that. Winders don't wind constantly but intermittently (to replicate the everyday wear that you advocate). Claiming that the owner of a perp should wear it every day 'cause "that's the whole point of owning one" is just downright idiotic. Collectors alternate watches.

It's unfortunate that discussions with you are often reduced to your inability to listen, coupled with a touch of arrogance that could fool some people into thinking you actually know what you're talking about....

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by gdl203

It's unfortunate that discussions with you are often reduced to your inability to listen, coupled with a touch of arrogance that could fool some people into thinking you actually know what you're talking about....

Yes. Jon's opinions have turned out incorrect so many times that I started wondering whether to take him seriously anymore.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by gdl203

You obviously don't know too much about this so I'll leave it at that. Winders don't wind constantly but intermittently (to replicate the everyday wear that you advocate). Claiming that the owner of a perp should wear it every day 'cause "that's the whole point of owning one" is just downright idiotic. Collectors alternate watches.

It's unfortunate that discussions with you are often reduced to your inability to listen, coupled with a touch of arrogance that could fool some people into thinking you actually know what you're talking about....

You completely misunderstood my point of a Perp: its point is that it should be used everyday. Should (do you live in a vacuum, or what?). You can do whatever you want with the watch, use it, not use it, throw it against the wall. But there are reasons, purposes for its complications. Just like a Tourbillon on a wristwatch is superfluous, so is a Perp Cal. that isn't used everyday. If you want to put it on a winder that's up to you, but it's not good for the long term longevity of the watch parts. But, if you are willing to pay for needless repairs, that's up to you. People who buy things can do whatever they want to do with them.

I know how they (winders) work, but its you that don't seem to listen, nor have you mentioned any information regarding how the mechanism may be unaffected. Simply by saying that I don't know what I'm talking about while I'm actually saying what happens on the mechanism, while you at the same time keep on saying the same thing over and over again, base solely on your assumptions (I have seen Pateks which need to be fixed after being place for many months on watch winders, WITH intermittent winding cycles).

But whatever, you believe what you want to believe. I show personal observations based on facts and how a watch movement works and you base your argument on baseless assumptions and you dare call me arrogant? This is why I don't like getting involved in watch discussions on the forum, because most people think they know better than those who are / were part of the industry. This is also one of the reasons Will Massena no longer posts here. Frankly people get tired of being personally attacked, I guess I can't confuse your argument with the facts.

Jon.

 

[imageWIS]

Originally Posted by whacked

Yes. Jon's opinions have turned out incorrect so many times that I started wondering whether to take him seriously anymore.

Which other opinions have I been wrong about? Funny I don't recall you ever contradicting them...and in this case, I am the only one posting actual facts and not opinions. Again, this is why I don't like getting involved in watch threads, because it's like shoveling **** up hill: everyone is an expert and no one listens. I feel like Odets when he took apart the Explorer, no one understood his point; they merely took from it what they wanted to take, and that's why he stopped posting as well.

Jon.

 

[Nantucket Red]

Originally Posted by gdl203

You obviously don't know too much about this so I'll leave it at that. Winders don't wind constantly but intermittently (to replicate the everyday wear that you advocate). Claiming that the owner of a perp should wear it every day 'cause "that's the whole point of owning one" is just downright idiotic. Collectors alternate watches.

It's unfortunate that discussions with you are often reduced to your inability to listen, coupled with a touch of arrogance that could fool some people into thinking you actually know what you're talking about....

Thank you, Greg, for being the voice of sanity in this discussion.

I haven't researched winders very thoroughly yet, but so far I like the Buben & Zorweg Time Mover Superior 2. http://www.buben-zorweg.com/home.php?welt=1

Any feedback on this or other winders and what features to look for would be appreciated.

 

[Mute]

Seems kind of pointless to get a perpetual calendar watch and not allow it to do what it was created to do, run a watch calendar without the need to reset month end dates and make leap year adjustments.

I suppose if one enjoys making the manual adjustments and not want to have to deal with the complexity, one can get the Ulysse Nardin GMT Perpetual. That would be my choice.

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

Which other opinions have I been wrong about? Funny I don't recall you ever contradicting them...and in this case, I am the only one posting actual facts and not opinions. Again, this is why I don't like getting involved in watch threads, because it's like shoveling **** up hill: everyone is an expert and no one listens. I feel like Odets when he took apart the Explorer, no one understood his point; they merely took from it what they wanted to take, and that's why he stopped posting as well.

Jon.

These are by no mean the best examples, just 2 that came off the top of my head at this moment:

http://www.styleforum.net/showthread.php?t=39083&page=5

http://www.styleforum.net/showpost.p...6&postcount=52

 

[whacked]

Originally Posted by imageWIS

You completely misunderstood my point of a Perp: its point is that it should be used everyday. Should (do you live in a vacuum, or what?). You can do whatever you want with the watch, use it, not use it, throw it against the wall. But there are reasons, purposes for its complications. Just like a Tourbillon on a wristwatch is superfluous, so is a Perp Cal. that isn't used everyday. If you want to put it on a winder that's up to you, but it's not good for the long term longevity of the watch parts. But, if you are willing to pay for needless repairs, that's up to you. People who buy things can do whatever they want to do with them.

Your advice is only useful for people who either own ONE watch (that is a Perp Cal) or those who are thinking about getting one (which according to you is pointless unless they belong to the previous group). Nantucket Red already had a respectable collection w/ a few Perp Cal, so what on earth would you suggest him do?

Let them sit?

More important, all watches should be kept wound and running for their own mechanical health to ensure proper lubrication and cut down on wear. If a watch sits still for a long period of time, the lubricant tends to clump. When that happens, it can have an adverse effect on the timekeeping accuracy of a watch with poor amplitude of the balance wheel. The reason that some, even the finest brand, timepieces do not perform up to par is probably due to the effect on a watch sitting in a jewelry store for long periods of time in a non-running condition.

Manual wind?

Manually winding an automatic mechanism "on a steady basis" can put unnecessary rapid stress on the sensitive auto reverser wheels possibly damaging the tiny internal clicks. The torque pressure resulting from manual winding of automatic watches is not made for, day-in day-out, manual winding, especially if the watch is not in a pristine new or overhauled condition. Also, most automatic watches today have screw-down crowns. Using such crowns on a steady basis for manual winding will result in a shorter life for these spring-loaded crowns. The daily pressure and tension will break the posts off sooner or later requiring replacement of the crown and also the stretched / worn O-ring tube gasket. You then run a greater risk of allowing moisture to penetrate the case without your awareness and knowledge.

http://forums.timezone.com/index.php...oto=2205&rid=2