New Sofa: Florence Knoll in Ivory Cato

[gdl203]

Sorry, I didn't think bathrooms and kitchen counted in the room count. 2 BR and a large living room / dining room.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by gdl203

Sorry, I didn't think bathrooms and kitchen counted in the room count. 2 BR and a large living room / dining room.

They probably don't. I'm not real estate lingo savvy.

 

[EL72]

Kitchens count, not bathrooms.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by EL72

We live with three kids in <1,700 sf. and we have three bedrooms + spacious LR, DR, Kit + sunroom that is a kids' playroom = 7 rooms. It's plenty of room for five though our nanny lives in of our bsmt apts and the kids do spend time there too.

Would I like more space? Sure I'd like more room for an office, guest room... but I am perfectly happy to trade off more space to live in a great house in a great neighborhood, on the subway, 5 min. to DT...

Now this is a perfectly reasonable statement. You would like more room, with purposes for the rooms, but are happy to trade off for the life in the city if affords you. That is a far cry from the "what new type of hell is this?" statement from another poster.

Originally Posted by EL72

Really? So just a kit, LR, and BR? Those must be very big rooms. And you have twin boys who can share a room until they move out.

BRs here are not huge. Smallest is ~100 sf and the master ~ 200sf. so that's less than 500 sf + LR/DR/Kit = 700-800sf + Bath + hallway.. = ~1,700

I have to say, 200 sq ft for a master would feel small to us. However, we're not in the middle of GTA, so as you say, there are trade offs.

 

[pejsek]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

Now this is a perfectly reasonable statement. You would like more room, with purposes for the rooms, but are happy to trade off for the life in the city if affords you. That is a far cry from the "what new type of hell is this?" statement from another poster.



I have to say, 200 sq ft for a master would feel small to us. However, we're not in the middle of GTA, so as you say, there are trade offs.

Nice try, Piobaire. What EL72 is saying is pretty much what I said--though certainly a bit more judiciously put. If you go back and look at your original statement--and I realize that at the time you were mostly interested in getting a rise out of mafoofan--you were putting forth the notion that a 2000sf city apartment was on the smallish side:

"I was under the impression your place was modest in size, only 2k sf or so."

This did indeed strike me as a sort of nightmarish proposition (hence the "fresh hell" epithet) as well as completely out of touch with the realities of living in most cities (where a 2000 sf apartment would nearly always be on the larger end of the spectrum). While I certainly have my own quibbles about space (I'd like a few more closets) I had never considered that my 1700sf was particularly small; indeed most people who come to visit perceive it as fairly spacious.

It's increasingly hard for old housing stock to keep up with contemporary desires. In the past 10-15 years an unrealistic expectation of space seems to have sprung up. I've noticed this in all parts of the country, from my grandparents' neighborhood to the neighborhoods my wife and I grew up in. In all of these, houses that were once considered handsome and spacious are now seen as woefully inadequate--and in need of serious augmentation. My grandparents' old house, for example, (two stories, four bedrooms, 2 baths and a full basement built in the 1930s) has now been at least doubled in size by the new owners. And to be honest, I really don't see the point. So many people want to live like a squires now (with, yes, dedicated wine cellars, exercise rooms, libraries, etc.). This idea of living shows an enormous sense of entitlement that to my mind is out of balance with basic human needs and capabilities. I don't think it's the right track and it's a path I don't much care to go down. I'll take quality over quantity almost every time and have no desire to try to maximize both simultaneously. That's a beast I will not feed (but then maybe I'm just a lazy bastard).

Kitchens count but bathrooms don't. Small rooms are very functional. The bedroom we use as an office/guest room is probably only 8'X12'. That 96 sf would be pretty useless spread around the rest of the house, but packed into one room it really comes in handy. A mix of large and small is both harmonious and useful.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by pejsek

Nice try, Piobaire. What EL72 is saying is pretty much what I said--though certainly a bit more judiciously put. If you go back and look at your original statement--and I realize that at the time you were mostly interested in getting a rise out of mafoofan--you were putting forth the notion that a 2000sf city apartment was on the smallish side:

"I was under the impression your place was modest in size, only 2k sf or so."

This did indeed strike me as a sort of nightmarish proposition (hence the "fresh hell" epithet) as well as completely out of touch with the realities of living in most cities (where a 2000 sf apartment would nearly always be on the larger end of the spectrum). While I certainly have my own quibbles about space (I'd like a few more closets) I had never considered that my 1700sf was particularly small; indeed most people who come to visit perceive it as fairly spacious.

It's increasingly hard for old housing stock to keep up with contemporary desires. In the past 10-15 years an unrealistic expectation of space seems to have sprung up. I've noticed this in all parts of the country, from my grandparents' neighborhood to the neighborhoods my wife and I grew up in. In all of these, houses that were once considered handsome and spacious are now seen as woefully inadequate--and in need of serious augmentation. My grandparents' old house, for example, (two stories, four bedrooms, 2 baths and a full basement built in the 1930s) has now been at least doubled in size by the new owners. And to be honest, I really don't see the point. So many people want to live like a squires now (with, yes, dedicated wine cellars, exercise rooms, libraries, etc.). This idea of living shows an enormous sense of entitlement that to my mind is out of balance with basic human needs and capabilities. I don't think it's the right track and it's a path I don't much care to go down. I'll take quality over quantity almost every time and have no desire to try to maximize both simultaneously. That's a beast I will not feed (but then maybe I'm just a lazy bastard).

Kitchens count but bathrooms don't. Small rooms are very functional. The bedroom we use as an office/guest room is probably only 8'X12'. That 96 sf would be pretty useless spread around the rest of the house, but packed into one room it really comes in handy. A mix of large and small is both harmonious and useful.

What do basic human needs have to do with anything? If someone wants a wine cellar, and they have the money and the space for it, why shouldn't they have one? Ditto for home theater rooms and exercise rooms.

 

[romafan]

Did you guys ever see AF's library?

Hey, is this the same couch that had the pizza box (wee?) under it?

 

[DocHolliday]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

What do basic human needs have to do with anything? If someone wants a wine cellar, and they have the money and the space for it, why shouldn't they have one? Ditto for home theater rooms and exercise rooms.
Many folks can't afford them, at least not nice ones, and end up with a Barbie dream home that looks and feels like plastic. Often they're poorly decorated, half-filled with mediocre furniture, and look like the occupants haven't finished moving in. Those places make me shudder. Yet this is what the construction industry is pushing as the modern ideal. If you have the scratch and can do it right, go for it.

 

[pejsek]

Originally Posted by GQgeek

What do basic human needs have to do with anything? If someone wants a wine cellar, and they have the money and the space for it, why shouldn't they have one? Ditto for home theater rooms and exercise rooms.

Oh sure, go ahead. I'm not advocating legal barriers. I'm just making the rather commonplace observation that people don't always know what they want and that sometimes the things they think will make them happy actually won't.

 

[TheFoo]

I live in a shoebox. Our home theater, dining room, living room, and library are the same room. Now, let's all debate whether my new sofa is kickass or surplus from a hospital waiting room.

 

[GQgeek]

Originally Posted by DocHolliday

Many folks can't afford them, at least not nice ones, and end up with a Barbie dream home that looks and feels like plastic. Often they're poorly decorated, half-filled with mediocre furniture, and look like the occupants haven't finished moving in. Those places make me shudder. Yet this is what the construction industry is pushing as the modern ideal.

If you have the scratch and can do it right, go for it.

I completely agree with this. I said so earlier in the thread (or in another one recently). I'd rather have a smaller place built at a higher cost/sq.ft. than a huge place that was poorly finished and decorated.

 

[dave]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

I live in a shoebox. Our home theater, dining room, living room, and library are the same room. Now, let's all debate whether my new sofa is kickass or surplus from a hospital waiting room.

there's no debate about that. it's a kickass sofa for sure. always been my favorite design and I actually prefer it without the buttons. I also hate leather sofas so your new piece is vastly superior to the old one IMO. only problem is it's yours and not mine

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by pejsek

Nice try, Piobaire. What EL72 is saying is pretty much what I said--though certainly a bit more judiciously put. If you go back and look at your original statement--and I realize that at the time you were mostly interested in getting a rise out of mafoofan--you were putting forth the notion that a 2000sf city apartment was on the smallish side:

"I was under the impression your place was modest in size, only 2k sf or so."

The bolded is the most intelligent thing you've said so far in this thread. It would have put almost everything else in the right light for the conversation.

Originally Posted by pejsek

This did indeed strike me as a sort of nightmarish proposition (hence the "fresh hell" epithet) as well as completely out of touch with the realities of living in most cities (where a 2000 sf apartment would nearly always be on the larger end of the spectrum). While I certainly have my own quibbles about space (I'd like a few more closets) I had never considered that my 1700sf was particularly small; indeed most people who come to visit perceive it as fairly spacious.

It's increasingly hard for old housing stock to keep up with contemporary desires. In the past 10-15 years an unrealistic expectation of space seems to have sprung up. I've noticed this in all parts of the country, from my grandparents' neighborhood to the neighborhoods my wife and I grew up in. In all of these, houses that were once considered handsome and spacious are now seen as woefully inadequate--and in need of serious augmentation. My grandparents' old house, for example, (two stories, four bedrooms, 2 baths and a full basement built in the 1930s) has now been at least doubled in size by the new owners. And to be honest, I really don't see the point. So many people want to live like a squires now (with, yes, dedicated wine cellars, exercise rooms, libraries, etc.). This idea of living shows an enormous sense of entitlement that to my mind is out of balance with basic human needs and capabilities. I don't think it's the right track and it's a path I don't much care to go down. I'll take quality over quantity almost every time and have no desire to try to maximize both simultaneously. That's a beast I will not feed (but then maybe I'm just a lazy bastard).

Kitchens count but bathrooms don't. Small rooms are very functional. The bedroom we use as an office/guest room is probably only 8'X12'. That 96 sf would be pretty useless spread around the rest of the house, but packed into one room it really comes in handy. A mix of large and small is both harmonious and useful.

To the bolded: you don't even live this! For all your ranting, you're a bloody hypocrite! Billions of humans live with much less in this world, than what the area you call "home" entails. You are far over what "basic human needs" require. And where's the entitlement? I mean, am I asking for anyone else to pay for this? Saying it's "my right" to this? Not even close. Hell, I'm keeping to a strict budget and ratcheting things down where ever possible, yet still maintaining as much quality as can be had at a reasonable ROI.

I think you have some issues, and that's fine. I have lived city life, enjoyed it, and am now living a different life. I feel no need to judge and wenge about how you live, I fail to see why you are so judgemental yourself. /shrug.

Whatever.

Foof, nice couch. I'd not drop 10k on it, but nice couch. And the pull is barely noticable

 

[pejsek]

Originally Posted by Piobaire

The bolded is the most intelligent thing you've said so far in this thread. It would have put almost everything else in the right light for the conversation.



To the bolded: you don't even live this! For all your ranting, you're a bloody hypocrite! Billions of humans live with much less in this world, than what the area you call "home" entails. You are far over what "basic human needs" require. And where's the entitlement? I mean, am I asking for anyone else to pay for this? Saying it's "my right" to this? Not even close. Hell, I'm keeping to a strict budget and ratcheting things down where ever possible, yet still maintaining as much quality as can be had at a reasonable ROI.

I think you have some issues, and that's fine. I have lived city life, enjoyed it, and am now living a different life. I feel no need to judge and wenge about how you live, I fail to see why you are so judgemental yourself. /shrug.

Whatever.

Foof, nice couch. I'd not drop 10k on it, but nice couch. And the pull is barely noticable

Issues? Once again you basically misunderstand me and there's no way for me to tell if it's willful. "Basic human needs" is simply not the same thing as subsistence living. I think we all need and aspire to more than that.

 

[Piobaire]

Originally Posted by pejsek

Issues? Once again you basically misunderstand me and there's no way for me to tell if it's willful. "Basic human needs" is simply not the same thing as subsistence living. I think we all need and aspire to more than that.

So just don't aspire to more than you deem necessary?

I'm done, we can go argue over this in the CE.