Figuring out & sourcing my style

[jonathan8883]

This is my first post here, but I took the time to look through the primers and a few pages on the "What are you wearing right now" threads. I see lots of clothes that fit more snugly than I am used to.

I am looking for advice about casual/semi-casual style, and possibly about upgrading my business dress a little bit as well.

My Context:
I'm 33, married with two kids under the age of four, and I live in Texas. A blazer or suit coat is weather-appropriate only 4-5 months per year.
My idea of a fun party involves either the shooting range, Settlers of Catan, or a bunch of three year olds, but not alcohol - clubbing/street/etc. type clothes are not on my radar, and never have been.

I have a set pattern for my work (business) clothes that works okay, but I'm not happy with my non-work clothing options. I've been out of college for over a dozen years; T-shirts are not something I want to wear out of the house unless I am going to the grocery store or planning to sweat a lot.
I work from home most days, and I'm in sales in the logistics industry. It's rare that a customer is as dressed-up as I am at a meeting, even when I'm just in a dress shirt and tie.

What am I working with?
5'10"

I weigh around 190#, with a bit of extra fat on my stomach. I have bulked up a bit in the last couple of years, but starting from a low base. I'll get back to lifting weights once I start getting more sleep regularly (baby is limiting factor). I think I'm about 3-6 months of 3/week lifting away from being able to chest press my own weight. I've been trying to cut back on calories some to reduce fat.
I have wider hips and a butt that sticks out instead of being flat. My wife likes it, but it means that many off-the-rack pants are uncomfortably tight around the entire hip area.

I have a long torso; shorter shirts will ride up above the belt line frequently, and mid-length shirts come untucked often.

I carry, typically a Springfield XD 9 subcompact at about 4 o'clock. I use a Remora holster that uses friction to stay in place, so there are no concerns with anything having to hook on to my belt. However, this introduces two challenges.
(1) Shirts that ride up easily go from "nobody wants to see my hairy stomach or kidneys" to "Texas allows open carry, but I'd rather not" territory. Once a shirt is up high enough, it'll catch on the butt of the gun and stay there.
(2) Super-tight shirts will print to a certain degree also.

Sizing, using an ArtofManliness article for a how-to
Chest: 39"
Neck 16.5"
Sleeve: 23"
True waist: 39.5"+gun
Waist I wear at: 37.5"
Inseam: Still ~32". Dickies and some other work pants require a 31" or they end up too long.

Current style
Work:
White dress shirt, "classic" fit. It's very easy to simply stretch a bit, and end up with enough material loose around the waist to completely cover the gun outline. I am currently wearing Arrow shirts from Kohl's because they are reasonably priced and I know they fit. I consider trying new dress shirts a PITA on a level with shoe shopping due to the dozens of pins involved. The shirts are around $30, $20 if I catch them on sale. Something that was a bit more tailored inwards at the middle (floating rib) level would probably make my shoulders look broader and thus better.
I do have one blue shirt that I occasionally rotate in for variety, but it's usually worn without a tie.

Dress pants from Dillards, Roundtree & Yorke. Black or dark grey. Pleated front (I used to carry in a belly band). Not a lot of choices with this brand. Pants are around $50/ea

Tie - I have a stable of about a dozen ties that I like. I could probably do with a few more, but I've got enough variety for now.

Shoes - black Bostonian Flexlites. I have a pair of nicer Oxfords that require a couple of bandaids to prevent blisters. I only wear them with my suit for customer meetings. The yearly suit-required corporate sales meeting gets my regular dress shoes so that I have less luggage; besides, most people have had "this many" drinks by the time we sit down. I have no brown belts or brown shoes, and I'm pretty sure I don't need them.

I wear a suit less than 3 times a year for work, on average; I have a black one (wedding suit) and a recently acquired blue one from SuitSupply that's in my avatar picture. This year may be an exception... I may need to wear a suit 7 times!

I work from home most days.

Casual:
This is where I'm struggling.

Button-down collared shirts: The only place I have found any is Kohl's. The Medium shirt was snug and a bit too small, but simply too short. The Large shirt was too bulky, and my attempt at getting it tailored simply produced an strange-looking pleat down the back (not using that tailor again). I have a couple of polo shirts with pockets that work okay, but I wore polo shirts all through high school and I really don't like them. I do not know where to go to get a long-torso button-down casual shirt that will fit well. These are for "go to church" and "hang around with friends" wear, so I don't want to spend more than $30-$40/shirt (I have kids, stains will happen).

Pants: Tight pants don't usually work (per above). I could go with slacks/dress pants like I do for work, but that seems like an odd combo for me. Carhart pants flat out do not fit at all. I have a couple of pairs of Dickies that fit okay, but the cargo pockets are poorly designed (ripped one out on a cabinet handle just walking past the cabinet). The one really good Dickies pair that I would wear all the time (cell pocket, good fit, etc.) is of course a discontinued model. I don't really know what to do for pants.

Shorts (summer): I'm not sure if these are acceptable adult style or not. I suspect they are for outdoor activities (picnic, bbq, etc.). I don't really know where to look for good ones.

Socks: Right now, just using basic black or white socks. I have a couple of pairs of ankle socks to use with shorts in summertime.

Shoes: Using a pair of all-black New Balance walking/running shoes. They go with everything except shorts.

Budget
It's not a matter of "can't afford," it's a matter of "don't want to spend." I don't mind spending a few hundred dollars, but I won't be buying any $100+ shirts or pants. I'd rather stay under $50/item, if that's a reasonable number to hit. If it's not, then I will need to adjust my expectations.

Thanks in advance for feedback and advice!

 

[ThomGault]

Just a couple thoughts: First, you sound like someone who has an adult-mindset and is interested in quality clothing. If that's true, then $50/item will not get you what you want. Under $50 will get you disposable mall clothing (or good quality used clothing from thrift stores or eBay. Would that interest you?)

Second, you and I don't have much in common physically, so I can't directly address your size concerns, but if you want more appropriate clothing, you'll likely need to shop at more traditional shops. This dovetails with my first point: stores that cater to traditional fit clothing are likely more expensive, too, but you're more likely to find shirts that are longer and pants that are fuller.

You can probably find some decent garments at mall shops at a decent price, but I think you'll find more of what you're looking for at a real men's store. Are you near a major city? If so, I presume there will be a few haberdasheries there. If there are no local retailers, you might try Brooks Brothers---it'll be more expensive than what you want, but the fit will probably be closer. Joseph Bank is an option that is most likely cheaper, but generally the quality is lower, too. Don't let sticker shock scare you---both stores will have frequent sales to offset the price tags. I'd really suggest you find a non-chain option, though.

For casual wear, try cotton chinos. They're more casual than wool, and I'd avoid cargo pants. I'd also find a new pair of casual shoes. I don't think any normal trouser will go with running shoes; try a medium brown brogued derby shoe.

 

[jonathan8883]

I can spend more, but I sure hope it's on stuff that lasts more than a year or two! I live in a suburb of Dallas, so there are lots of options. I don't even know what stores or store names to look at or start with, aside from the two chains you mentioned. I didn't think either of them carried non-dress clothes, though.

 

[ThomGault]

Quality clothing, if not abused, should last for many years, if not decades.

I don't know about Bank, but BB carries shorts. Is that what you meant by "non-dress cloths?"

You'll also need to find a competent tailor whom you trust and shares your vision of clothing. I've seen Anna's Alteration & Buttons (at Preston & NW Hwy) mentioned as a good option, although that information may be outdated. A good tailor can take clothes that just don't quite fit and turn them into a glove. Of course, poor tailors can also do the opposite.

 

[thesilentist]

First, you need to re-align your expectations of what quality, good-fitting clothing will cost you. Sorry, but while you can hunt for deals, it sounds like you don't have a ton of time to be doing that kind of legwork. If you're used to your clothing wearing out in a year or two, then you've been buying cheap clothing that's not made well from materials that aren't of good quality. There's a reason the most expensive stuff is more expensive.

Learn what brands fit you well and educate yourself on the basics of building a good wardrobe. Here's a pretty basic list of wardrobe essentials:
http://putthison.com/post/712103418/the-essential-mans-wardrobe-perhaps-the-most

If you really do have a long torso, then you'll want to have shirts custom made. Go buy a tailor's measuring tape. Get your best fitting shirt, learn how to take measurements of the shirt while laid flat and then input those measurements into one of the many made-to-measure custom shirt companies available online and make a test shirt. See how that fits and then tweak the measurements for your bulk order.

Since you live in Dallas, take advantage of the nice stores in the area: Andrisen Morton Stanley Korshak (my bad, got these switched around), Neiman Marcus, etc. Check them out, be prepared for sticker shock. But learn what "nice" clothes cost, what they look like and how they feel and are constructed. Then check out places that are more affordable, like Brooks Brothers. You can scout ahead online, but you really need to experience and feel what this stuff is like in person, too.

 

[jonathan8883]

What's a realistic price range to expect for a good pair of casual pants (Chinos? Not sure what those are beyond Google) and a collared short-sleeve casual shirt (non-polo)?

There are so many brands, stores, and names, and it's all totally unfamiliar.

 

[thesilentist]

For chinos: I feel Epaulet offers a great value:
https://epauletnewyork.com/collections/bottoms

Others like JCrew or Bonobos, but I feel those are pretty generic and not as well made -- but they are cheaper.

For shirts, it depends more on your style. Brooks Brothers will always have that American prep option for sport shirts. JCrew will have cheaper, more modern versions of that. Ralph Lauren Polo a more expensive version. If you prefer a more unique take on sport shirts, Gitman Vintage does cool stuff. I think Our Legacy offers a nice European take on casual clothing and isn't too outrageously priced for the quality. A lot of guys like Eidos for it's Italian aesthetics and fantastic textiles. A really underrated brand manufactured in Chicago is Stock Mfg Co., who uses a mil spec factory to do men's clothing that's more rugged.

 

[Woofa]

I live in Fort Worth and my suggestion is to take a look at the two Dillard’s Clearance Centers. One is in Irving at the Irving Mall and one just south on 360 at the Six Flags Mall. These are places that sell last season’s Dillard’s merchandise at a distinct discount. Your not going to find Brioni and Kiton but that does not seem to fit what you are looking for. Stuff usually starts at 50 to 66% off and then there are weekly sales on top of that up to an additional 50% more. Holidays will often have a 50% off everything in the store sale which is on top of the already discounted merchandise. You can find Hart Schaeffer Marx and Hickey Freeman there as well as a few other solid brands including the Dillards line of Cremieux products. Note that the higher level Cremieux, silver label or signature level is decent stuff. At 75% off retail during a double sale it is possible to get some decent stuff without breaking the bank. Please note that these are very hit or miss and you can go one day and find almost nothing then two week later they will get a shipment of suits and sportcoats. Also, this stuff is more reasonable fit wise for those of us who tend to pack on a few extra pounds or have our weight fluctuate.
Of course if you are willing to buy used then there are two men’s consignment shops in Dallas where you can get higher quality stuff for about the same price but not everyone is okay with used stuff. Good luck and don’t hesitate to PM me if I can help any further.

 

[jonathan8883]

The challenge I have with Dillards is that they rarely stock pants in my exact size; I usually end up having to order online.

Epaulet advertises a narrow leg opening. Aside from the hips, the thighs are usually the other place pants sometimes run uncomfortably tight. Small leg openings looks like a negative to me.

Stock Manufacturing looks good, but I do not think they are quite my style (solids usually look better on me than plaids & patterns).

Here is a style of shirt that I think fairly works well for me, although I'm quite willing to entertain opinions that it doesn't. The Medium fits well (contour-following) across the shoulders, but is too short in the body - it rides up too far even with just one arm up at shoulder level. I think it could be tapered in a bit at mid-torso also.

What type or style of shirt is this? I don't know what terms to look for when searching, looking at custom shirts, etc.





One arm up, and it's clearing the top of the belt line... not good when caryring.

 

[ThomGault]

Looks like a safari shirt to me. It's about as casual as possible, but I'm not sure of your intended function. Where do you intend to wear it? I don't think it would be appropriate unless you're hunting or fishing, etc.

 

[jonathan8883]

Is it less casual than a polo shirt? I figured it was around the same level to slightly higher.

 

[ThomGault]

I would probably pick a simple classic polo as more formal, simply because your shirt has very visible sharply contrasting buttons, doesn't tuck in, looks like it's made of linen or thin cotton so it's very wrinkled, has double breast pockets, the collar isn't structured, and the tan color...compared to a neat and trim polo (knit fabric doesn't wrinkle as much, no ornamentation like breast pocket, no dark contrasting strong line of buttons, and usually tuckable)

 

[jonathan8883]

Drat. What polo alternatives are there?
A chest pocket is really handy for a cell phone when driving, sitting down, etc.

I was thinking it would fit in the same category as a guayabera: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/07/25/guayabera/
Not really sure where to go for Guayaberas either, fit options, etc. I have seen a few people wear them, though.

 

[ThomGault]

Internet fashioned gurus be damned...If you're not in a locale that wears guyaberas, you're not going to fit in. Of course, what you have is not a guyaberas at all, and is missing the distinctive elements.

Additionally (and counter-intuitively), the only thing to put into most pockets is *nothing.* Any object with mass will make the pocket bulge out, distorting the drape and flow of the garment. Worst case scenario is the pocket fabric stretching, and then the pocket will always be deformed and look like there's something in it, even if there's not. If you put something in a pocket, try to put it in a non-visible spot. A shirt breast pocket is a poor choice for a bulky item like a cell phone.

Regarding polo shirts brands/retailers, try the suggestions already listed above. I prefer non-logoed polos, but they can be difficult to locate.

 

[jonathan8883]

Well, I've seen shirts very similar (but without the extra pockets) around. I just don't know what they're called. It's not like there's a database that shows pictures of every style of clothing and its name (or is there?).

I am specifically looking for something that is not a polo shirt. I do not like them.

When I search for custom shirt makers (as recommended up thread) I just get a bunch of T-shirt places. Specific recommendations?