Cars We Drive!

[HRoi]

You know they’re not force turning it on for anybody, right? You still have to enable it even after the update, just like these people would have if they subscribed to it or bought it outright. You also have to accept the disclaimer before you enable it that tells that you that you basically can't just get blackout drunk and have it drive you around.

This new version is actually pretty amazing and is absolutely not just a "lane keep assist". Even prior versions of FSD were nothing of the sort and what you are prolly thinking about is Autopilot, but that works pretty damn well too.

I realize you guys are all hating on Musk and I guess by proxy on Tesla, but so many of you are making such ignorant statements and proclamations that it’s pretty clear you don’t have any first hand experience with what you’re talking about, or you got the unfortunate short end of the stick due to a lack of education about the cars from the likes of Hertz. In reality I suspect most of you are just parroting some automotive “media” nonsense. It’s hard to change any minds in an echo chamber, but just wanted to point out that you guys are being intellectually dishonest with yourselves.

EDIT:
And yea, the bullshit about it being “solved” this year for the past four years or whatever is just stupid on Musk’s part, but again, it’s not like this was done before. The rockets didn’t land themselves back on Earth until suddenly they did either… Do you know of anybody even remotely close to Tesla’s progress in this realm?

To reiterate the statement you are reacting to: I am concerned, as a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian, to learn that all the Tesla 3 and Ys around me (which are a LOT) are all now equipped with a feature that has a documented history of failures, is not afaik approved by NHTSA, and has a greater than zero chance of killing me on the road.

Please let me know what parts are ignorant. I am actually looking for real fact-driven corrections here, in hopes of being reassured.

 

[Omega Male]

Just bought our first ever Korean car, a Genesis GV80. Wife really liked the Bentley-esque interior and cabin tech -- which I have to say are both quite impressive. After she nailed the sales manager to the floor, the value proposition was also quite compelling. I just went to get a free coffee on the service side and by the time I got back the poor dude had pit stains and they were signing on $10K off sticker. Will be interested to see how it drives.

 

[bdavro23]

Just bought our first ever Korean car, a Genesis GV80. Wife really liked the Bentley-esque interior and cabin tech -- which I have to say are both quite impressive. After she nailed the sales manager to the floor, the value proposition was also quite compelling. I just went to get a free coffee on the service side and by the time I got back the poor dude had pit stains and they were signing on $10K off sticker. Will be interested to see how it drives.

I have a G70 after years of owning first Audi's, then BMW, then Mercedes. It will honestly be hard to ever go back since it drives better than all but the BMW, is nicer inside than all but the Mercedes, and is just better all around than the comparable Audi. All of this, while being substantially cheaper. I am impressed, obviously.

A couple years ago I tried to convince my wife to trade her BMW in for what we had paid for it and get a GV70 when rates were super low and people hadnt caught on to the Genesis value prop. She refused and will now be forced to drive the BMW for at least the next few years for her sins. Seriously the biggest issue in our marriage, which I am obviously thankful about.

 

[Texasmade]

A couple years ago I tried to convince my wife to trade her BMW in for what we had paid for it and get a GV70 when rates were super low and people hadnt caught on to the Genesis value prop. She refused and will now be forced to drive the BMW for at least the next few years for her sins. Seriously the biggest issue in our marriage, which I am obviously thankful about.

Just divorce her. That'll teach her for not listening to you.

 

[jbarwick]

Just bought our first ever Korean car, a Genesis GV80. Wife really liked the Bentley-esque interior and cabin tech -- which I have to say are both quite impressive. After she nailed the sales manager to the floor, the value proposition was also quite compelling. I just went to get a free coffee on the service side and by the time I got back the poor dude had pit stains and they were signing on $10K off sticker. Will be interested to see how it drives.

So you got a Cayenne and she gets a Genesis. Are you going to start letting he drink $2 Chuck next?

 

[sugarbutch]

Who knew that Elon had time to spin up a sock to post on StyFo?!

 

[HRoi]

Just divorce her. That'll teach her for not listening to you.

It’s not a divorce-worthy offense unless she got the pig snout BMW

 

[venividivicibj]

After she nailed the sales manager

Did you bring the cuck chair to the dealership, or did they provide

 

[tom153]

To reiterate the statement you are reacting to: I am concerned, as a driver, cyclist, and pedestrian, to learn that all the Tesla 3 and Ys around me (which are a LOT) are all now equipped with a feature that has a documented history of failures, is not afaik approved by NHTSA, and has a greater than zero chance of killing me on the road.

Please let me know what parts are ignorant. I am actually looking for real fact-driven corrections here, in hopes of being reassured.

What documented failures are you talking about? The only thing I can think of was the “California stops” that they used to do when there were no cars or other road users around, but that was disabled and they all make complete stops for quite a while now. Cars on FSD have done a billion miles without a single fatality. From personal experience I can tell you that the car will go around pedestrians and cyclists even when they’re in your lane of travel, giving them plenty of room; even in the rain. Hell, it even spares random DC crackheads’ lives when they jump out in front of it by slamming on the brakes on its own 😆 I think you’re in SoFL, right? The “greater than zero chance of killing you” that I would worry about would be pretty much all the other drivers rather than “FSD”.

Sorry man, the Tesla self-driving tech sucks. It relies 100% on cameras which is absolutely stupid and will mean it will never be capable of actually fully self-driving because it won't be able to handle all weather conditions at a minimum. Consumer Reports and others have rated a variety of the systems. CR's review has Ford as #1 and Tesla as #8.

Ford’s BlueCruise Remains CR’s Top-Rated Active Driving Assistance System - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports reviews and ranks active driving assistance systems, including Ford BlueCruise, General Motors Super Cruise, and Tesla Autopilot.

www.consumerreports.org

You drive using your eyes, no?
Looked at the link you posted and it seems like a stupid test designed to find a system that nags you the most for taking your eyes off the road.
BlueCruise is really just limited to major highways and even there it drops off in random sections.
I take it you have not had any experience with Tesla’s Autopilot on the highways in at least a few years, or the recent versions of FSD, if you say their tech sucks.

 

[otc]

You drive using your eyes, no?

If I had the ability to add a lidar sensor to my face, I would 100% use it…especially since there are a lot of conditions where my eyes don’t do that great of a job.

 

[nootje]

What documented failures are you talking about? The only thing I can think of was the “California stops” that they used to do when there were no cars or other road users around, but that was disabled and they all make complete stops for quite a while now. Cars on FSD have done a billion miles without a single fatality. From personal experience I can tell you that the car will go around pedestrians and cyclists even when they’re in your lane of travel, giving them plenty of room; even in the rain. Hell, it even spares random DC crackheads’ lives when they jump out in front of it by slamming on the brakes on its own 😆 I think you’re in SoFL, right? The “greater than zero chance of killing you” that I would worry about would be pretty much all the other drivers rather than “FSD”.



You drive using your eyes, no?
Looked at the link you posted and it seems like a stupid test designed to find a system that nags you the most for taking your eyes off the road.
BlueCruise is really just limited to major highways and even there it drops off in random sections.
I take it you have not had any experience with Tesla’s Autopilot on the highways in at least a few years, or the recent versions of FSD, if you say their tech sucks.

Don’t be

Tesla to recall 362,758 cars because Full Self Driving Beta is dangerous

NHTSA has concerns about four different kinds of FSD behavior.

arstechnica.com

A simp

Huge Tesla leak reveals thousands of safety concerns, privacy problems

A Tesla employee gave more than 100GB of data to Germany's Handelsblatt.

arstechnica.com

For Elon.

NHTSA investigating Tesla Autopilot after yet another fatal crash

NHTSA has opened dozens of investigations into Tesla after more than 30 deaths.

arstechnica.com

 

[brokencycle]

What documented failures are you talking about? The only thing I can think of was the “California stops” that they used to do when there were no cars or other road users around, but that was disabled and they all make complete stops for quite a while now. Cars on FSD have done a billion miles without a single fatality. From personal experience I can tell you that the car will go around pedestrians and cyclists even when they’re in your lane of travel, giving them plenty of room; even in the rain. Hell, it even spares random DC crackheads’ lives when they jump out in front of it by slamming on the brakes on its own 😆 I think you’re in SoFL, right? The “greater than zero chance of killing you” that I would worry about would be pretty much all the other drivers rather than “FSD”.



You drive using your eyes, no?
Looked at the link you posted and it seems like a stupid test designed to find a system that nags you the most for taking your eyes off the road.
BlueCruise is really just limited to major highways and even there it drops off in random sections.
I take it you have not had any experience with Tesla’s Autopilot on the highways in at least a few years, or the recent versions of FSD, if you say their tech sucks.

Consumer Reports was one example and they do have a score for forcing drivers to act safely.
BlueCruise and others are limited to major highways because that is where it is actually safe. Elon and co are just going full steam ahead and going to ask for forgiveness after people die.

I have zero interest in a Tesla, so no, I don't have personal experience; however, I trust the experts who review these things.

 

[HRoi]

What documented failures are you talking about? The only thing I can think of was the “California stops” that they used to do when there were no cars or other road users around, but that was disabled and they all make complete stops for quite a while now. Cars on FSD have done a billion miles without a single fatality. From personal experience I can tell you that the car will go around pedestrians and cyclists even when they’re in your lane of travel, giving them plenty of room; even in the rain. Hell, it even spares random DC crackheads’ lives when they jump out in front of it by slamming on the brakes on its own 😆 I think you’re in SoFL, right? The “greater than zero chance of killing you” that I would worry about would be pretty much all the other drivers rather than “FSD”.

The post below yours is a good starting point for documentation. The frightening thing is that those articles underscore my biggest problem with this unethical company - just release the feature in beta and let your customers sort out the bugs by crashing, and in the case of “autopilot”, dying.

Yes, I’m in So FL, and point taken about the horrible drivers here…which is why I don’t care to have another negative variable to contend with. People here are so god damn inattentive that they are the exact kind of people who will completely misuse FSD by giving up total control.

We actually talked about this in my staff meeting last week. Two people owned Teslas and tried the FSD trial, and another has a newly minted PhD daughter who’s either done her grad studies in ADAS, or works in the field currently…I wasn’t sure which.

owner 1: no issues, was impressed by FSD. Turned it off in parking lots because he doesn’t know what FSD would do once it got to a mapped destination that was a campus

owner 2: FSD accelerated right at one of those bar-type gates. Didn’t care to find out if the car would correct itself, slammed on the brakes manually

Parent of researcher: got into this fascinating discussion about how the coders don’t know how to instruct the car when it detects it’s about to get into an unavoidable crash. Does it just do the best it can and just have the crash? Is there some kind of independent analysis that needs to be enabled and give the car a hierarchy of targets to crash into instead?

 

[Piobaire]

Parent of researcher: got into this fascinating discussion about how the coders don’t know how to instruct the car when it detects it’s about to get into an unavoidable crash. Does it just do the best it can and just have the crash? Is there some kind of independent analysis that needs to be enabled and give the car a hierarchy of targets to crash into instead?

They just haven't hired the right coder to overcome this Kobayashi Maru.

 

[sugarbutch]

The post below yours is a good starting point for documentation. The frightening thing is that those articles underscore my biggest problem with this unethical company - just release the feature in beta and let your customers sort out the bugs by crashing, and in the case of “autopilot”, dying.

Yes, I’m in So FL, and point taken about the horrible drivers here…which is why I don’t care to have another negative variable to contend with. People here are so god damn inattentive that they are the exact kind of people who will completely misuse FSD by giving up total control.

We actually talked about this in my staff meeting last week. Two people owned Teslas and tried the FSD trial, and another has a newly minted PhD daughter who’s either done her grad studies in ADAS, or works in the field currently…I wasn’t sure which.

owner 1: no issues, was impressed by FSD. Turned it off in parking lots because he doesn’t know what FSD would do once it got to a mapped destination that was a campus

owner 2: FSD accelerated right at one of those bar-type gates. Didn’t care to find out if the car would correct itself, slammed on the brakes manually

Parent of researcher: got into this fascinating discussion about how the coders don’t know how to instruct the car when it detects it’s about to get into an unavoidable crash. Does it just do the best it can and just have the crash? Is there some kind of independent analysis that needs to be enabled and give the car a hierarchy of targets to crash into instead?

Does anyone here think that Tesla has a corporate culture which will tackle the trolley problem in a robust and considered way? I am certain there are ethical, conscientious people in the company, but I have zero confidence that those people get the final say when push comes to shove because the evidence to date strongly suggests they don't.

It seems like a lot of people seem unable to hold these two ideas in their heads at the same time:

1) Self-driving technology has progressed to the point where it is incredibly capable, verging into the realm of science fiction.
2) Self-driving technology is not safe enough to be unleashed on the world in uncontrolled environments.

I am willing to stipulate that self-driving systems are frequently better than the average inattentive, bored driver in typical conditions. I haven't seen much to suggest that these systems are as good as an attentive good driver in the random situations which come up. The best way to reduce traffic injuries and deaths is not self-driving cars, it's reducing the need for private car trips overall.