Beginnings of a Charvet Habit....

[TheFoo]



Consider asking when you return for your fitting. I'd be curious to know what you discover.

Thinking of flying back for a day in March.

^ Foo: no Geneva?

No. They aren't that adept at fine-tuning. Not willing to spend a few grand on shirts that aren't quite right.

 

[marcodalondra]



Consider asking when you return for your fitting. I'd be curious to know what you discover.

It is pretty clear in the interview that they only did that for a specific project on a limited number of white shirting offering. They still source and offers standard range from their selected suppliers, SIC Tess being one of them. They would not have the buying power to have the same for every single shirting they have in stock, as their RTW production is very limited compared to other big brands and bespoke more so. It is an easy guess that the price you pay for their shirts has to cover the Paris location, the capital tied up in shirting stock (seen there) and obviously the labour cost in and around Paris.

 

[poorsod]

I thought their workshops are in St. Gaultier.

 

[marcodalondra]



I thought their workshops are in St. Gaultier.

I think you are right. Still quite expensive labour compared to Italy as far as I understand from friends living and working all around France (short working week, benefits, etc...)

 

[TheFoo]

The problem I have with picking from their massive storeroom is that they can't really tell you anything about any of the shirtings. For the fabulously wealthy who do not need to think of utility or durability, that may be no issue. For me, it is. I can't afford to pick a shirting just because it feels great and looks nice. I need to also know whether it will perform as I hope. Hence, my other thread asking about Alumo. I am likely just to tell them exactly which shirting from which mill I'd like to use.

In preemptive response: I did not pick Charvet for their shirting selection, which is rightfully renouned and the reason many others might engage them. I picked them for their expertise in fitting, their workmanship, and their reliability (short term and long term). I'm more or less done with small shops. Too much drama. The surface savings are almost never worth it.

 

[marcodalondra]



The problem I have with picking from their massive storeroom is that they can't really tell you anything about any of the shirtings. For the fabulously wealthy who do not need to think of utility or durability, that may be no issue. For me, it is. I can't afford to pick a shirting just because it feels great and looks nice. I need to also know whether it will perform as I hope. Hence, my other thread asking about Alumo. I am likely just to tell them exactly which shirting from which mill I'd like to use.

In preemptive response: I did not pick Charvet for their shirting selection, which is rightfully renouned and the reason many others might engage them. I picked them for their expertise in fitting, their workmanship, and their reliability (short term and long term). I'm more or less done with small shops. Too much drama. The surface savings are almost never worth it.

I think it may be indeed the right solution for you. Do you mind sharing the latest prices for their full measure?

Also, as in our previous discussion you have often described the uniqueness of AM shirts, did you ever think to simply have someone copying them? If you left aside some of the handwork (which is obviously less important to you as expressed before and you recent experience at Geneva and Charvet demonstrate), you could get almost the exact same shirt you love at a fraction of the price and in series (until you considerably change in body configuration).

 

[TheFoo]

Geneva couldn't copy the Matuozzo shirt. I was told they simply don't cut that way. Also, and this makes a lot of sense to me, they were wary of starting from a base they are not used to, as they would not be as familiar with how to implement corrections. I think that is a fair assessment and conceptually applies to any shirtmaker. So even if another offered to copy Matuozzo's work, I would be highly reluctant to proceed.

 

[marcodalondra]

I do not understand their do not "cut that way statement " (what they mean? they do not use scissor? can only cut from their own pattern?) but cannot disagree with you about it as it is their statement. I also disagree that consequent changes cannot be easily made as it is about to apply the new measures to the existing geometry of the shirt. Anna may do it the amendment in her own way but there would not be that considerable as the basic pattern would have been the same. Copying a shirt pattern from an exiting shirt is quite simple and very achievable whilst a Jacket is a different story unless it is broken up to study/copying the internal canvassing etc. I have re-cut some RTW shirts using my bespoke shirts measures but adapting to each shirt existing pattern, and I found it not even remotely hard, and I am not even remotely a professional. Having said that, at least they have admitted where their know-how reside and did not want to go down a road where they perhaps could not deliver for whatever reasons.

 

[TheFoo]

I think you are oversimplyfing. There is no one "right" way to cut a shirt for someone (that includes pattern drafting, not just the actual cutting with shears). Thus, two different shirtmakers will come up with different approaches to fit the same client. An easy example is the way Neapolitan shirtmakers often fit larger diameter sleeves into smaller diameter armscyes. This creates volume in the sleeve itself that can accomodate extra shoulder width. A standard, non-Neopolitan sleeve fitting would not create the same volume and thus requires the width of the shirt body and yoke to compensate. Another example is the depth of the yoke. I have used three different shirtmakers. Each has cut the yokes very differenty. Matuozzo's happen to be the deepest and Geneva's the shallowest. This naturally affects how the rest of the shirt is cut.

Put another away, there are clearly different solutions to the same problems in shirtmaking. It makes perfect sense that one shirtmaker would not be able to perfectly mimic the work of another.

 

[marcodalondra]



I think you are oversimplyfing. There is no one "right" way to cut a shirt for someone (that includes pattern drafting, not just the actual cutting with shears). Thus, two different shirtmakers will come up with different approaches to fit the same client. An easy example is the way Neapolitan shirtmakers often fit larger diameter sleeves into smaller diameter armscyes. This creates volume in the sleeve itself that can accomodate extra shoulder width. A standard, non-Neopolitan sleeve fitting would not create the same volume and thus requires the width of the shirt body and yoke to compensate. Another example is the depth of the yoke. I have used three different shirtmakers. Each has cut the yokes very differenty. Matuozzo's happen to be the deepest and Geneva's the shallowest. This naturally affects how the rest of the shirt is cut.

Put another away, there are clearly different solutions to the same problems in shirtmaking. It makes perfect sense that one shirtmaker would not be able to perfectly mimic the work of another.

I am not oversimplifying and feeding the extra fabric of the sleeve head into the armscye is no complicated. If you put your shirts flat on a table, from the back, you can look at the side edges of the back panels, the curvatures in those is the basic geometry used by AM (edit as well as the front panels corresponding lines). Once that is copied, if you gain weight, then those will move outwards (edit: as well as the front panels, it should be proportional) until you reach a point where you have to overcompensate just the front shirts panels width at waist points to allow for a protruding belly but allowing the side seams to stay straight at the side of your body. For depth of the yoke do you mean the width (across your shoulder measure)? or the Height (the measure from the back base of the collar down to the base of the yoke as well as the corresponding height at the shoulder point)? One is a reflection of where the cutter/fitter should identify your shoulder points and the other affect the way the shirts will hang based on your posture as well as allowing different solutions for easiness that hallow outwards stretch. Please clarify as you may have just confirmed my observation on Matuozzo fit.

 

[poorsod]

Supposedly Colban has sole rights to the color combinations for the fabrics he creates. I didn't know you could copyright or patent (or whatever the correct legal term) that.

Jean-Claude Colban, who runs the French clothier and shirt-maker Charvet with his sister Anne-Marie, spends several weeks a year at his computer terminal, creating a few hundred unique color swatches -- shifting the scale of stripes, slightly changing the color relationships. Even a white shirt has both overtones and undertones, after all, and the hue of a blue yarn changes, for instance, when set beside another color. Mr. Colban registers each color combination he creates, so that Charvet holds the sole rights to it.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB126349588317829071

 

[sprout2]

How much are Charvet charging these days for bespoke pajamas?