2021 SF Retrospective -or- How did you SF in 2021?

[ValidusLA]

I originally conceptualized this as a poll, but I came to the conclusion that the likelihood of it coming of as being in or actually being taken as being in bad faith was high.

I'm curious how the many folks on the forum (mostly the CM side as I'm not really at all active on the SWD side besides watching the JMM thread) viewed, used, and thought about Styleforum in 2021.

Obviously many folks around here have been here a lot longer than I have. I lurked lightly from 2014-2019, registered in 2019, and really only became a true user in 2020.

These were my rough takes on the year

Negatives First:

- The early and middle parts of the year were bad juju for me here. There was a lot of oxygen sucked up in the room by endless, and in many cases bad faith, arguments over the mixing of shoes with pants and jackets. Honestly my own fault for engaging to the degree that I did, but I considered just cancelling all SF notifications and writing the forum off.

- @dieworkwear has made the argument many times this year that the forum has become sectioned off into, and this is my phrasing not me quoting him so apologies if he thinks this is misrepresenting him, many "consumer interest threads." IE - That a vast amount of Styleforum is just people going into siloed off threads and posting about stuff they bought to rounds of facile applause. At first I didn't really jive with this, but the more I looked around, the more I agreed with this thought. The sheer post count in some of the brand threads compared to the general discussion or interest threads is staggering, and mildly depressing.

- The Style Advice section seems to have gone down hill this year in the quality of questions asked by new or visiting members. This makes me slightly worried that fewer new people are perusing / interested. It seemed better in '19/20.

- I looked into CE. The abyss stared back. I ran away.

The Positives:

- Many of the threads here continue to be excellent. I'm thinking of specifically Ongoing Bespoke, State of Black Tie, Unfunded Liabilities. Classic Menswear could use more threads about general interest Classic Menswear subjects, if I do say so.

- Thanks to Styleforum, I read the excellent Swan Songs by @RJman ! This book, and the thread that accompanies it, are the kind of content I think makes this forum worthwhile. It astounds me that that thread has 9 pages while the thread for a single shoe brand just in the past year has over 800.

- Certain sections of Culture continue to be excellent - Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto especially. Design Objects thread was not at active this year as the last two, but its still a really great thread that has helped me refine what I think about things in my own home and things I might like. Home Ownership thread is, likewise, pretty active, good natured, and informative.

- Some excellent conversations with individuals both in PM's and in public forums have made me enjoy being here, especially towards the end of the year. Shout outs to @emptym and @RSS for being established forum fixtures who were super cool to a (relative) newbie (me).

- The in depth knowledge, if you actually listen to those who are knowledgeable (not me usually), about craft, cloth, fitting, trade, and ordering available on SF is an ongoing positive resource.

Overall, SF continues to help me realize many of the stylistic mistakes I have been making, allows me to discover new things that might work for me, and gives me ideas for things in my wardrobe / or home that might bring some joy, however fleeting.

 

[dieworkwear]

Looking back at my SF usage in 2021, I suppose I was my usual annoying self.

 

[TheShetlandSweater]

I originally conceptualized this as a poll, but I came to the conclusion that the likelihood of it coming of as being in or actually being taken as being in bad faith was high.

I'm curious how the many folks on the forum (mostly the CM side as I'm not really at all active on the SWD side besides watching the JMM thread) viewed, used, and thought about Styleforum in 2021.

Obviously many folks around here have been here a lot longer than I have. I lurked lightly from 2014-2019, registered in 2019, and really only became a true user in 2020.

These were my rough takes on the year

Negatives First:

- The early and middle parts of the year were bad juju for me here. There was a lot of oxygen sucked up in the room by endless, and in many cases bad faith, arguments over the mixing of shoes with pants and jackets. Honestly my own fault for engaging to the degree that I did, but I considered just cancelling all SF notifications and writing the forum off.

- @dieworkwear has made the argument many times this year that the forum has become sectioned off into, and this is my phrasing not me quoting him so apologies if he thinks this is misrepresenting him, many "consumer interest threads." IE - That a vast amount of Styleforum is just people going into siloed off threads and posting about stuff they bought to rounds of facile applause. At first I didn't really jive with this, but the more I looked around, the more I agreed with this thought. The sheer post count in some of the brand threads compared to the general discussion or interest threads is staggering, and mildly depressing.

- The Style Advice section seems to have gone down hill this year in the quality of questions asked by new or visiting members. This makes me slightly worried that fewer new people are perusing / interested. It seemed better in '19/20.

- I looked into CE. The abyss stared back. I ran away.

The Positives:

- Many of the threads here continue to be excellent. I'm thinking of specifically Ongoing Bespoke, State of Black Tie, Unfunded Liabilities. Classic Menswear could use more threads about general interest Classic Menswear subjects, if I do say so.

- Thanks to Styleforum, I read the excellent Swan Songs by @RJman ! This book, and the thread that accompanies it, are the kind of content I think makes this forum worthwhile. It astounds me that that thread has 9 pages while the thread for a single shoe brand just in the past year has over 800.

- Certain sections of Culture continue to be excellent - Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto especially. Design Objects thread was not at active this year as the last two, but its still a really great thread that has helped me refine what I think about things in my own home and things I might like. Home Ownership thread is, likewise, pretty active, good natured, and informative.

- Some excellent conversations with individuals both in PM's and in public forums have made me enjoy being here, especially towards the end of the year. Shout outs to @emptym and @RSS for being established forum fixtures who were super cool to a (relative) newbie (me).

- The in depth knowledge, if you actually listen to those who are knowledgeable (not me usually), about craft, cloth, fitting, trade, and ordering available on SF is an ongoing positive resource.

Overall, SF continues to help me realize many of the stylistic mistakes I have been making, allows me to discover new things that might work for me, and gives me ideas for things in my wardrobe / or home that might bring some joy, however fleeting.

Yeah, this is interesting. This site was pretty unreadable for a few months--so I stopped coming for a bit.

I think a lot of the segmenting off is actually a natural step in the evolution of this site. My sense is that there are many more good dressers on here than there used to be. A lot of people on here really know how to dress quite well. (Some also don't.) So what are they going to talk about?--Probably products and where to find various things. It should also be said that, at least for me, a lot of the joy in menswear is finding, acquring, and wearing new things, so it shouldn't be a surprise that people like talking about these things too.

I think this website can be a more productive space, provided that people want it to be. I think a big part of the problem (aside from incivility, too many people wanting to bring politics into everything, etc.) is that too many discussions on here are started by people who are newer to classic menswear and are asking basic questions that have been discussed over and over again. Rehashing these subjects is not that interesting to people who have been on here a while.

So my suggestion is this: if people want more interesting and substantive discussions, they should start them. People (and I include myself) should start more threads on things they find interesting. Either this or we spend another year talking about pairing (if it can even be called that) oxfords and chinos.

 

[ValidusLA]

Looking back at my SF usage in 2021, I suppose I was my usual annoying self.

I was probably as dickish or more dickish in the first half of the year in shoe related matters.

Yeah, this is interesting. This site was pretty unreadable for a few months--so I stopped coming for a bit.

I think a lot of the segmenting off is actually a natural step in the evolution of this site. My sense is that there are many more good dressers on here than there used to be. A lot of people on here really know how to dress quite well. (Some also don't.) So what are they going to talk about?--Probably products and where to find various things. It should also be said that, at least for me, a lot of the joy in menswear is finding, acquring, and wearing new things, so it shouldn't be a surprise that people like talking about these things too.

I think this website can be a more productive space, provided that people want it to be. I think a big part of the problem (aside from incivility, too many people wanting to bring politics into everything, etc.) is that too many discussions on here are started by people who are newer to classic menswear and are asking basic questions that have been discussed over and over again. Rehashing these subjects is not that interesting to people who have been on here a while.

So my suggestion is this: if people want more interesting and substantive discussions, they should start them. People (and I include myself) should start more threads on things they find interesting. Either this or we spend another year talking about pairing (if it can even be called that) oxfords and chinos.

Interestingly, I've definitely seen some old-timers insinuate they think people are dressed worse here now. I haven't been around long enough to judge.

I agree about starting new threads. If only I were more inventive!

 

[dieworkwear]

I think one of the problems of CM is that there's not much sense of community. Or maybe that's just how I look at it.

Over at SWD, there's a very strong sense of community. Not just in the threads focused on brands (e.g. JMM, Celine, and most obviously Alden), but also things like Random Fashion Thoughts.

I don't get that feeling on the CM side of the board, and I think there used to be more of a sense of community here. To the degree I see a community, it's mostly in brand or affiliate threads, such as NMWA and Allen Edmonds. The Unfunded Liabilities thread almost feels like Quora. People post questions, and then others answer. There's little joking or banter.

A lot of CM feels didactic. IMO, this is inherent in the idea that "we've run out of things to talk about" since that implies that there's some finite information to absorb and learn.

Anyway, I don't think my usage of SF has changed much in the last year.

 

[ValidusLA]

I think one of the problems of CM is that there's not much sense of community. Or maybe that's just how I look at it.

Over at SWD, there's a very strong sense of community. Not just in the threads focused on brands (e.g. JMM, Celine, and most obviously Alden), but also things like Random Fashion Thoughts.

I don't get that feeling on the CM side of the board, and I think there used to be more of a sense of community here. To the degree I see a community, it's mostly in brand or affiliate threads, such as NMWA and Allen Edmonds. The Unfunded Liabilities thread almost feels like Quora. People post questions, and then others answer. There's little joking or banter.

A lot of CM feels didactic. IMO, this is inherent in the idea that "we've run out of things to talk about" since that implies that there's some finite information to absorb and learn.

Anyway, I don't think my usage of SF has changed much in the last year.

Interesting you say that about CM, I don't really disagree.

I mentioned the Culture side of the board because I do actually feel a great deal of comity, generally, in some of those Home/Garden/Design/Furniture threads.

I've thought about diving into SWD side more, but, ultimately, I think I would be a pretender there in all of: true interest, how I dress, and how I act in real life.

Side question: Why is Alden in SWD?

 

[dieworkwear]

Interesting you say that about CM, I don't really disagree.

I mentioned the Culture side of the board because I do actually feel a great deal of comity, generally, in some of those Home/Garden/Design/Furniture threads.

I've thought about diving into SWD side more, but, ultimately, I think I would be a pretender there in all of: true interest, how I dress, and how I act in real life.

Side question: Why is Alden in SWD?

Not sure why Alden is on the SWD side of the board, but if I had to guess, I assume it's because back in 2005 or 2007, it was somewhat of an SWD brand. People wore Alden Indys with raw denim jeans and the like. So I assume that someone from SWD started it, and then it slowly got taken over by CM guys because of the trad history. (This is just a guess).

 

[emptym]

I think the main change I've made in forum usage (though starting more in 2020 than 2021), is to follow the Covid-19 thread pretty much daily. It's been my favorite source of news and opinion on the pandemic, particularly due to people with real expertise on the subject, like @LA Guy and @breakaway01.

There's some good community there too, imo, with folks sharing their fears and hopes, struggles and sympathy.

Perhaps some of the community has splintered off to PMs and chat. The pandemic's prevention of in-person get-togethers may have decreased some elements of community on the forum as well.

Edit: Definitely @RJman's Swan Songs was a highlight of the year, as was the Secret Santa organized by @Jr Mouse and so wonderfully fulfilled by @Jmr928. Thank you, you three.

 

[FlyingMonkey]

I don't spend much time on this side of the forum these days for all the reasons both @ValidusLA and @dieworkwear give. Mind you, the CM side is also limping a little these days too.

 

[FlyingHorker]

It's been a blur, so I'm lumping the past couple years together.

I mainly spend time in the following threads:

-Spier & Mackay
-DWW Appreciation
-Cloth Thread
-Bespoke Thread

I do post to fill a "void" at times.

 

[Andy57]

The vast majority of my contributions are in the Black Tie thread and to the WAYWRN thread in spurts. I read some of the other threads from time to time. My usage/participation hasn't changed much during the pandemic.

I think that if there is a sense of community on StyFo, it exists in the Black Tie, WAYWRN, and Watch threads. Perhaps in others, too, but I don't read many other long-running threads.

My pet peeve among threads is threads of the form "I want Tiffany quality, but I only want to pay Walmart prices".

 

[circumspice]

The Unfunded Liabilities thread almost feels like Quora. People post questions, and then others answer. There's little joking or banter.

I wonder if this is impacted by StyFo being a top-down chronological message board versus a threaded one. That thread is pretty much the only game in town for cloth discussions, so it can feel like you might be torpedoing someone's ask if you throw in an off-hand reply that causing the discussion to move elsewhere.

Or, this might be representative of how people tend to not create new threads

 

[Mirage-]

I joined in this (last) year so obviously no previous experience.
All in all, I've found the forum most useful for recommendations of specific brands/designs I was looking for, but not very useful for any actual discussion, as everybody seems to be completely set up in his own camp and unwilling to move from it.
And *some* people (yes, you, DWW, most of all) keep advocating for discussion, but then tend to want to dominate any and all discussions of every possible such thread, so that in the end only his personal sensibility gets representation.
That being said, I do agree with the sentiment that 20 fandom threads on specific shoe brands are of little use. I tried posting in one and quickly left as apparently critiques were not welcome, only pics of new MTOs.

 

[mossrockss]

I've historically been a sparse poster on SF, much more of a lurker tbh. I'd say in 2021 that's still been the case. My biggest source of engagement from like 2014-2018 was the Eidos thread, and that is obviously dead now.

This year I have enjoyed the MC general chat thread, and the @dieworkwear appreciation thread too. I feel there's some community in both those places. Enjoyed the bespoke western shirt thread for a bit lol. I keep up with the brand threads, too, just to know what's happening (NMWA+ S&M mostly).

I appreciate SF quite a bit despite what shortcomings it might have as far as its community goes; I'm 13 years into what I assumed would be a 2-year clothing phase of my life, with no end in sight, and so it's really nice to have folks talking about something I'm still so interested in who I can engage with.

 

[OldTown]

It'd be easy to fix if you just banned brand specific threads (or moved them to a sponsors subforum) and allowed only generic thread names like DENIM THREAD 2022 or POST YOUR DRESS SHOES 2022. I don't see that happening though as brands pay money to have their sponsor threads on here and money talks at the end of the day.