The ignorance of others

I went into several Cambridge and Boston stores recently, and have been surprised by how ignorant some salesmen and even some buyers are about different designers and manufacturers. For example, a buyer for the women's section in a high end Cambridge store didn't know who or what Balenciaga was. Huh? I feel that even if the store doesn't carry that type of fashion (and it didn't) it is incumbent on the buyer, if no-one else, to be generally knowledgeable about the industry. And it was also claimed that Giorgio Armani designed Vestimenta suits. Unless I've been greatly mislead, the relationship between Armani and Vestimenta is that the latter manufactures Armani suits, just as Gruppo GFT manufactures (or at least used to) Joseph Abboud, and that Armani does not do any of the designs for the Vestimenta label.

The Andover Shop (Cambridge) refused to tell me who does their MTM suits. I asked the owner (?), "Would you mind telling me which factory do you use for your MTM suits?" to which I got the reply "I would mind - and it wouldn't make a difference anyway. The information would mean nothing to you. All you need to know is that your suit came from the Andover shop." I'll tell you what, it won't. And I'll be sure to recommend to as many people as I can not to patronize your store, sir, because I do not appreciate being condescended to. I don't think that it was an inappropriate question, but there were certainly better ways to have said the same thing. A simple "I'm sorry, but our company policy is to not divulge that type of information" would have sufficed.

On the other hand - I had a brief conversation the the tailor at Rizzo's on Church street. Assuming that his work is good, I would recommend him on demeanor alone. He was very unpretentious and friendly - he was making the marks to adjust a guy's Chaps Ralph Lauren suit when I went in - and I flipped through a Loro Piana swatch book as I waited to talk to him. I told him outright that there was no way I could afford one of his 2K customs, and he told me that there were perfectly acceptable alternatives without making it sound distasteful. Pretty much the opposite of the salesreps at the Jay Kos store in NYC.

I'll tell you what, it won't. And I'll be sure to recommend to as many people as I can not to patronize your store, sir, because I do not appreciate being condescended to. I don't think that it was an inappropriate question, but there were certainly better ways to have said the same thing. A simple "I'm sorry, but our company policy is to not divulge that type of information" would have sufficed.

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Did you say that?

Did you say that?

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No, I smiled politely, thanked him for his time, and left. Not worth the trouble.

There is a similar shop I've been to here locally that treats people the same way. The owner expressed shock at knowledge of the way suits are made etc. (thanks to knowledge from this forum).

The Andover Shop sounds like the same place. Let's all call the Andover Shop at 877-475-2252 and ask who makes their MTM suits.

(I know that probably wouldn't be appropriate, but sure sounds good.)

I'm sure we have all had our horror stories regarding salespeople.

Last time I was in Boston, my horrible experience was with Louis Boston. Suffice to say that I won't be a patron in that store upon my next trip to the city. It really does not matter how good the brands they carry are, if the sales people are unwilling to properly acquire enough knowledge / manners to sell them. Not to mention it took the better part of 20 minutes to get somebody's attention in the first place.

Jon.

I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect a retail outlet to reveal to you (someone who has just walked in from the street) their suppliers. It is their choice to decide whether their own name has priority or the name of the designer/manufacturer or they give both equal billing: "Alden for the Andover shop" or "Andover shop made by Alden". You do not believe that a label produces all their stuff in house (sometimes nothing at all)? If you want to buy a Brioni Belt or Brioni socks, a firm specializing in that particular product will have produced them.  This firm, incidentally, will produce belts or socks for everybody and his grandmother. P.S. Balenciaga, isn't that the guy who died some 30 years ago, never designed a men's wear article in his life and never produced a single item of prêt-a-porter? He was a couturier, and would have looked down from his Olympian heights at any couture house to let the side down and produce prêt-a-porter (in those days only Monsieur Cardin). P.P.S. Armani did (at least in the past) design for Vestimenta (under their continental label "Hilton"). He started out with Hilton and Allegri, they produced for the Armani label, and he designed for them. (Sometimes the items were almost interchangable.) Just checked the Hilton web-site: http://www.hilton.it/ Current designer is Nicola Del Verne.

P.S. Balenciaga, isn't that the guy who died some 30 years ago, never designed a men's wear article in his life and never produced a single item of prêt-a-porter? He was a couturier, and would have looked down from his Olympian heights at any couture house to let the side down and produce prêt-a-porter (in those days only Monsieur Cardin).

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Cristobal Balenciaga yes, the Spanish couturier who was based in Paris. He actually closed down his couture atelier in the 60's because he bemoaned the passing of quality, and ethics in the haute couture world. Which in fact was somewhat due to Pierre Cardin, and later Courreges' pret-a-porter collections which made Cardin get rejected from the Federation Francaise de la Haute Couture. Later the Pret a Porter Academy was created with Cardin as the chairman.

Balenciaga's label was divulged into perfume, and numerous other licenses much like YSL was. Then it was resurrected, and is now led by Nicholas Ghesquiere. No couture though which is rather a shame.

My bad expereince at a retail shop was at the Shanghai Dunhill store. The people there did not seem knowledgable, were slacking off by going about in small groups giggling, and then did not produce a catalogue when I requested one to peruse. The thing was that the catalogues were in plain view right on a table. I complained to Dunhill Asia.

I think it is a bit unreasonable to expect a retail outlet to reveal to you (someone who has just walked in from the street) their suppliers. It is their choice to decide whether their own name has priority or the name of the designer/manufacturer or they give both equal billing: "Alden for the Andover shop" or "Andover shop made by Alden".

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It was their tone I most objected to. If they do not wish to reveal their sources, that is their perogative. But there is no need to be condescending and unprofessional about it.

You do not believe that a label produces all their stuff in house (sometimes nothing at all)? If you want to buy a Brioni Belt or Brioni socks, a firm specializing in that particular product will have produced them. This firm, incidentally, will produce belts or socks for everybody and his grandmother.

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Of course not. But there are a number of different factories in upstate New York that manufacture MTM, and the quality of the different products do differ from one firm to another. As for the Brioni belt, I understand that I am paying for the design and the Brioni name (and yes, I do know that very few companies manufacture nearly every firms belts.) For a MTM suit, which is made to my specifications, including style, I would expect to be given a little more information.

P.S. Balenciaga, isn't that the guy who died some 30 years ago, never designed a men's wear article in his life and never produced a single item of prêt-a-porter? He was a couturier, and would have looked down from his Olympian heights at any couture house to let the side down and produce prêt-a-porter (in those days only Monsieur Cardin).

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This was the buyer for womenswear, who buys from firms in Paris. Yes, Cristobal Balenciaga has been dead many years, but his label, designed by Nicolas Ghesquiere, is one of the hottest Paris based womenswear labels today So yes, I would expect her to know about it.

P.P.S. Armani did (at least in the past) design for Vestimenta (under their continental label "Hilton&quot. He started out with Hilton and Allegri, they produced for the Armani label, and he designed for them. (Sometimes the items were almost interchangable.)

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I did not know that. I always thought that Armani started out as a buyer, that worked with Nino Cerruti before starting his own line. And I;ve never understood why Vestimenta SPA markets under the "Hilton" label in Europe.

There are three nicer men's shops locally that I browse through from time to time. In one of them, the owner has always been kind, hospitable and friendly. I've never purchased anything from him and couldn't afford most of it anyway. Another nearby shop always gives me the vibe that I should be glad they let me in the front door. It's too bad, since they carry a number of things I'd like to look more closely at, but they certainly don't make me feel welcome to.

If someone is showing a genuine interest it seems to me that they might want to try to develop a potentially long-term customer. Many don't seem to care.

Last time I was in Boston, my horrible experience was with Louis Boston. Suffice to say that I won't be a patron in that store upon my next trip to the city.

Jon.

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Interesting, I was at Louis Boston about two years ago and the salesmen in the Kiton/Oxxford section was more than willing to help out me and a buddy. Given that we were both around 19/20 at the time, it was pretty obvious that we weren't going to be making a purchase. He was helpful regardless.
I get the same treatment always in Bergdorf Goodman; the salespeople there are outstanding.

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Did you say that? Â
No, I smiled politely, thanked him for his time, and left. Â Not worth the trouble.
You should have LA. It would have been so great. Reminds me of a similar experience I had at Gucci Old Bond Street. The story goes: I set of on my travels of shopping on the 2 Bonds on day, the sales had just ended and new stock had just come in, so I figured that I ought to stock up on the new collection, my first stop was Versace, where I entered, go a bit of the look from the attendant (you know that kind of "who is this nobody"), so I gave him a look back, and he smiled (perhaps he recognised me). He followed me around the whole store, giving assistance in a very proficient manner. I made my purchases and left, next I went to Vuitton, and I was immediately greeted by a man who said he was the store manager, and he addressed me by name, (Mr. -). Once again, he was very proficient in his attitude. A few stores went by until I got to Gucci, as per se it was filled with wannabe women, and Japanese tourists. The door attendant said to me that the store was full and I could not come in, I took off my sunglasses and looked at him, nothing, he just looked back at me, I said can I go in? Just a moment sir. He responded. Two minutes passed and ten people had left the shop when he said, you can enter now sir. Therefore, I went in thinking nothing of it. I went along to the shoe section and was not even greeted yet, no matter I thought, I asked for a few pairs of shoes in my size, and the attendant said he would put them by for me, and he gave his name; Duncan. Then I went to the clothing, picked up a few suits, (as I recollect it was five) about ten shirts, and five ties, there was also about five casual items, I carried them to the till, but en route I was stopped by a woman working at the store, what are you doing sir, she asked me, going to the checkout, can you take these, while handing her the clothing, and I also informed her about the  shoes and Duncan, she did not reply and walked off, in the opposite direction of the till, back to the clothing section. Where are you going I demanded? No reply... So I made my way to the till, and asked for my bill, they had no idea about what I was talking about, then I saw the female attendant, and called her over to the till, after the cashier told her what was happening, she said I thought you were shoplifting sir, I was shocked, I was wearing a Zegna suit, navy blue, light blue shirt, tie, and my White gold Cartier Tank with diamonds, why would she think I was stealing., Not to mention the fact that in Vuitton and Versace they recognised me. I was horrified, so I just put a few fifties on the table, alongside my business card, and left, they called at me, Sir, Sir, but I continued. I did receive a phone call from Gucci the next day, where they were very apologetic, and they sent me gift vouchers for 100 pounds, I have been to Gucci on Bond twice since, and they immediately are aware of me.... I prefer to visit the Sloane Street store these days.

Okay Kalra, I know that we had a gentlemen's agreement to not try to figure out who you are; but it seems obvious from your past few posts and your reticence to reveal your identity, that you are not in fact an anonymous but wealthy businessman, but a celebrity of some sort. Â Let's examine the evidence: Â you were recognized at Versace; you buy designer clothing by the truckload; you have a taste for diamonds; you were rather catty with Ernest on the watches thread. Â I need to ask: are you Sir Elton John? Please say yes. Â "Your Song" always makes me cry, and I have "Tiny Dancer" to thank for a lot of much needed make out sessions. Â Â

No, I am married. They even recognised Mittal at Verace when we went together. Now he's a guy you want to know, compared to him I am a blue collar citizen, why not look him up.

(That's Lakshmi N. Mittal if you really want to do so)

Maybe you won't know who I am if you do not know who Mittal is.

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The door attendant said to me that the store was full and I could not come in, I took off my sunglasses and looked at him, nothing, he just looked back at me, I said can I go in?
This reminds me of my experience attempting to enter the Hermes in Rome. Apparently they have a bouncer there and he told me that the store "was closed". I looked at my watch which said the time was around 13:00 on Saturday. So I laughed and walked off into Brioni which was nearby and gawked at all the nice suits there without any hassle. Sometimes I'm made to feel the same way by salespeople in Neiman's and Saks. Of course, I never intend on buying anything I see there - I just go to size myself on clothing that I might pick up off of ebay .

Maybe you won't know who I am if you do not know who Mittal is.

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He's an Indian billionaire, mostly through inheritance. But, making some of his own. Lives in London.