lapels never fit

Whenever I try on a suit, the lapel are always popping away from the chest even though everything else, like the shoulders, will fit. I'm one of those non-muscular guys, with no chest. Is this lapel thing something that I can just ignore and just get altered, or keep on looking for something with a better fit. I've tried different makers and sizes, and have had no luck so far.

Do you mean that the egdes of the lapels don't rest against body of the coat? That's probably not a matter of fit but of improper tension in the canvas, which causes the lapel to roll improperly. What brands are you trying on?

Its not just the lapels. Its the whole front of the suit. It doesn't rest on my body; it sticks out a inch or two away from my chest.

I've been trying the american brands such as Hickley-Freeman.

And the coats fit fine in shoulders and collar?  I suppose they're just too "long" in the body.  By which I mean, not too big around the middle; that is, not "side to side."  Rather, it is too big "up and down" the chest of the coat above the waist.  Possibly such a coat's front can be taken in at the shoulder seam.  That is, you undo the shoulder seam, trim some cloth off the top of the coat front, pull the front up, and re-stitch the seam.  I don't know how you could do that without screwing up the armhole, however.  And you'd have to undo the gorge, trim a little off the top of the lapel, and then reset the gorge. Yet I don't think taking the coat in at the backseam or side seams (the usual way to slim down a coat) would work either.  I wonder what Len will say if he reads this.  Probably that I don't know what I'm talking about.

You mention HF.  They tend to make a pretty low-waisted coat.  A coat with a higher waist and waist button might be just the thing.  It will have a shorter chest and shorter lapel roll.  Might lie flat more easily without billowing out.

Manton,

I've also tried 2 buttons and 3 buttons as well. What you're prescribing sounds like a very complicated alteration. I guess I'll just keep on searching.

I'm not sure I'm right. Let's see if a real tailor weighs in.

Have you tried an Italian coat with a higher waist? Whether 2 or 3 button, a higher waisted coat is less likely to have this problem.

Manton,

How do you know so much? I think I read that you were writing a clothing book. How's that coming along? What will the focus on it be? I can't wait to read it.

How do you know so much?

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Some of it comes from reading these forums.  No joke.  There are people here who really know their $h1t.  I also read a lot of books, talk to a lot of tailors and people in the business, and buy too many clothes.

I think I read that you were writing a clothing book. How's that coming along? What will the focus on it be? I can't wait to read it.

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Out next fall.  It will cover all the usual topics: body types, garment models, color, pattern, formality, etc.  It has (I believe) a longer and more comprehensive treatment of silhouette than any other book out there.  It also has some "sociological" and "philosophic" treatments of clothes that I think have never been done before -- at least not the way I did it.  I have read some of those academic studies of clothing, and they are turgid as hell.  My book is philosophic in the old sense, like Machiavelli.

Thanks for the kind words.

Manton,

What did you find so special about the works of Mackiavelli, such as The Prince? When I first read it years ago, I really didn't appreciate what was so great about it. Maybe, I read the book too fast and failed to understand the subtlety of it. I just figure there has to be something more to it than what I got out of it. Whenever I read a book like that such as Art of War or Clausewitz's book, I fail to see how relevant it can be beyond its specific focus.

Manton, What did you find so special about the works of Mackiavelli, such as The Prince? When I first read it years ago, I really didn't appreciate what was so great about it. Maybe, I read the book too fast and failed to understand the subtlety of it. I just figure there has to be something more to it than what I got out of it. Whenever I read a book like that such as Art of War or Clausewitz's book, I fail to see how relevant it can be beyond its specific focus.

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Well, I'm not Manton, nor Machiavelli, nor even a philosophy scholar, but as I understand it, Machiavelli's major contribution was to introduce the idea of political *science*, as opposed to political *philosophy* (for example, the Republic of Plato) into the modern Western scholarly tradition. The Art of War was of course a much older work, and not disimilar in its focus and tone, but it was also a Chinese work, and inaccessible to the west for a long time. Of course, there is a general belief (among the Chinese anyway) that there any western philosophies were already discoursed at length among Chinese scholars a couple of thousand years previous. Arrogant bastards.

Christian, try a suit from a different maker. You might have better luck, especially if you're a skinny guy. I am preeeetty skinny, and HF is like wearing a pillow case with soulder padding. Edit: I work out a lot, so my chest and lats are much larger than my waist, but HF still looks waaaay too big on me. It makes me feel like I'm 12 years old, wearing clothes I can't even fill.

Getting back to the original question -- try an Italian suit. I find their off the rack suits generally fit slimmer through the body than American or English brands.

The Art of War was of course a much older work, and not disimilar in its focus and tone, but it was also a Chinese work, and inaccessible to the west for a long time.

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Machiavelli also wrote an Art of War. It was the only book he published in his lifetime.

Manton,

What did you find so special about the works of Mackiavelli, such as The Prince?

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He is funny, and he knows everything. Boy, I could go on forever about Old Nick, but that about sums it up.

Machiavelli also wrote an Art of War. It was the only book he published in his lifetime.

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Whoops. Totally focussed on Sun Tsu.