bullies, violence, best life, esquire

Originally Posted by Violinist

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If your kid can't deal with bullying when he is 8, how the **** will he deal with trouble when he's older? I'd be so embarassed if that guy was my father. Involving the authorities in a matter of schoolyard bullying? Is that a joke?

Bullying varies along a spectrum from name calling to serious abuse. A tiny little japanese kid at BCS used to get the **** kicked out of him on a regular basis. Nobody really knew about it until the bullies were expelled because 2 of them would take him in to the bathroom and hit him where others wouldn't see bruises. He was being beaten up by 2 kids and he was much smaller. What do you think he should have done? These two bullies were vicious. They were eventually expelled when one of them pulled a knife on one of the rugby coaches in the dining hall during dinner after he confronted them about beating up the other kid.

Originally Posted by Violinist

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If your kid can't deal with bullying when he is 8, how the **** will he deal with trouble when he's older? I'd be so embarassed if that guy was my father. Involving the authorities in a matter of schoolyard bullying? Is that a joke?

Violinist, this must have been typed without any thought. An 8 year old is exactly who should not be able to deal with bullying. He's an 8 year old. A child. No life experience. No authority. No nothing. That's why parents are supposed to teach you how to deal with it.

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Originally Posted by rdawson808

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Violinist, this must have been typed without any thought. An 8 year old is exactly who should not be able to deal with bullying. He's an 8 year old. A child. No life experience. No authority. No nothing. That's why parents are supposed to teach you how to deal with it.

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My god, I wonder how generation after generation got on without helicopter parenting! You almost made me cry dawson. I don't symphatize because I wasn't picked on I guess.

The point is, having mommy and daddy rescuing you is not going to be good. That's why we now have a generation of kids who live with their parents until they're 28 and need to "find themselves" before they can move on with life.

If you're 8 and you're JUST "A child. No life experience. No authority. No nothing. " then your parents are marsupialed pussies who shouldn't have had you. You're 8 years old, not a puppy.

If the kid is honestly getting the **** kicked out of him, then of course put a stop to it, but most often, kids who got bullied were annoying. Notice how none of the other kids run to their aid? There's probably a reason for that.

Don't teach the kid to fight back necessarily, but there's ways of avoiding it. Teach the kid to recognize patterns. There's obviously times where they are going to get bullied like when they're alone etc... it teaches the kid to think critically, to think about what to do when their parents aren't around.

So on top of being annoying and having no friends, those kids deserve daily humiliation and beatings?

But I agree on the other part, most of the people I graduated with as an undergrad, most still live at home with their parents. But they did manage to find the means to buy nice cars.

Originally Posted by Violinist

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If you're 8 and you're JUST "A child. No life experience. No authority. No nothing. " then your parents are marsupialed pussies who shouldn't have had you. You're 8 years old, not a puppy.

If the kid is honestly getting the **** kicked out of him, then of course put a stop to it, but most often, kids who got bullied were annoying. Notice how none of the other kids run to their aid? There's probably a reason for that.

Wow.

Like I said, I have no kids. Do you? I'd love to hear what an average parent thinks an 8 year old can deal with.

And other kids don't come to the aid of those being picked on because they don't want to be picked on. Frankly you sound like you were always the bully.

What kind of childhood did you have? In my experience, the kids who were picked on were picked on because they were smaller and usually smarter. For some they weren't one of the "cool" kids or have cool clothes or a cool house. Maybe they weren't into sports. There was always something that set them apart--size, smarts, whatever. They weren't picked on because they were "annoying" in any adult sense. Eight year olds don't say "he's annoying." They say "he's a dork" or "he's a ***" or "he's fat."


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Originally Posted by rdawson808

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Wow.

Like I said, I have no kids. Do you? I'd love to hear what an average parent thinks an 8 year old can deal with.

And other kids don't come to the aid of those being picked on because they don't want to be picked on. Frankly you sound like you were always the bully.

What kind of childhood did you have? In my experience, the kids who were picked on were picked on because they were smaller and usually smarter. For some they weren't one of the "cool" kids or have cool clothes or a cool house. Maybe they weren't into sports. There was always something that set them apart--size, smarts, whatever. They weren't picked on because they were "annoying" in any adult sense. Eight year olds don't say "he's annoying." They say "he's a dork" or "he's a ***" or "he's fat."


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umm what 8 year olds did you know. We called each other **** all the time. And no, the smartest kids were never picked on. They might have been "smart" back then, but now in their 20s they're usually weird kids who drink Jolt cola in their parent's basement playing tomb raider 16 or whatever the ******* is.

Usually kids were picked on because they were raised by weirdo parents who made them think they were more intelligent than everyone else, so they acted like that *** Martin in the simpsons.

I wasn't raised by north american parents so I was used to having to do a lot of stuff on my own. When we'd travel abroad, I was given a hotel key and could walk anywhere I wanted... I routinely flew alone. It's called not being raised like a *****. If your kid is actually smart, then he'll develop the people skills necessary to stop getting his ass kicked, or at least start realizing the pattern of abuse. If they're so "smart" they should be able to outsmart some overgrown kid who likes to hit people.

Originally Posted by Violinist

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umm what 8 year olds did you know. We called each other **** all the time. And no, the smartest kids were never picked on. They might have been "smart" back then, but now in their 20s they're usually weird kids who drink Jolt cola in their parent's basement playing tomb raider 16 or whatever the ******* is.

Usually kids were picked on because they were raised by weirdo parents who made them think they were more intelligent than everyone else, so they acted like that *** Martin in the simpsons.

I wasn't raised by north american parents so I was used to having to do a lot of stuff on my own. When we'd travel abroad, I was given a hotel key and could walk anywhere I wanted... I routinely flew alone. It's called not being raised like a *****. If your kid is actually smart, then he'll develop the people skills necessary to stop getting his ass kicked, or at least start realizing the pattern of abuse. If they're so "smart" they should be able to outsmart some overgrown kid who likes to hit people.

boy, even when I sort of agree with you, you are still an asshole. you have a gift.

Like someone else posted, there is a broad spectum of what could be considered "bullying"

Kidding Around<Teasing<Picking On<Harrassment<Assault

It also depends on who is doing the bullying. If it is another kid the same general height/ weight as the victim doing the bullying, I would be more likely to want the kid to face it themselves. But, if it is an older kid or some genetic freak who is significantly larger than the victim it is definately time to step in. This is why there are diffrent weight classes in boxing and wrestling-you don't spar with someone not your own size.

As far as getting law enforcement involved? Why not, if an actual law is being broken? If I as an adult walk up to my asshole neighbor (who I despise) and tell him "You have COOTIES" the cops will laugh him out of the precinct if he were to make a complaint. If I however threw a rock at him that tore a gash in his forhead and knocked him out cold I would probably be arrested for Assault and could expect to lose a civil case. If we want kids to be independant part of that is learning that there are consequences for actions...on the bully's behalf, if he never learns not to engage in this behavior at a young age watch out when he grows up, picks on the wrong person and gets shot.



PS If all else fails, go to the Ghetto and hire a really tough girl to beat the **** out of the bully for $50. Make her do it in the schoolyard so the entire student body can see him getting his ass kicked by a girl!

An interesting thread. I, of course, came of age when schoolyard fighting was no big deal. My mother once came to pick me up at a pre-school I attended briefly and founding the teachers pushing me in a swing and lionizing me because I had beaten up a playground bully. I have no recollection of the incident. When I was a little older, a lot of times the guy were trading punches with was your good buddy a couple of days later. Interestingly, I don't think I have been in a real, all-out fight since I hit puberty. With my stepson it has been the other way around. He didn't fight at all as a little kid, but as young adult he seems more prone to getting into fights--not a good idea: While he is wiry and strong, he has no particular skills.

As a general matter, I think it is best to let kids fight it out and settle their own differences, but there are so many situational variables I wouldn't make a hard and fast rule about these things.

You used to see boys fighting a lot more--on front lawns and so. You almost never do now.

Originally Posted by MrDaniels

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PS If all else fails, go to the Ghetto and hire a really tough girl to beat the **** out of the bully for $50. Make her do it in the schoolyard so the entire student body can see him getting his ass kicked by a girl!

I failed to mention in my story that the kid who beat me up later was beat up by a girl. I enjoyed watching that. She was bigger than both of us.

Originally Posted by MrDaniels

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PS If all else fails, go to the Ghetto and hire a really tough girl to beat the **** out of the bully for $50. Make her do it in the schoolyard so the entire student body can see him getting his ass kicked by a girl!

Originally Posted by ms244

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The best advice I never got was to stand up and fight mercilessly.

Instead I got lectures about how words don't hurt, if you ignore these problems they go away and numerous other feel good bullshit. It took a lot of other painful experiences (and years) to unlearn this.

One other thing, if you know that you can physically stand and defend yourself, it does a lot for your self-confidence and self-respect.

QFT.

Unspeakable damage has been done to countless boys/teens/men by this type of lie. This is basically preaching burying one's head in the sand, when they should be preaching athleticism, strategy and mild brutality coupled with fairness and compassion. Basically teach the kid to use his head and do right by himself and others, but not be afraid to use the ol' mutually assured destruction philosophy....

And I think this is the one and only real solution. I think the father in the article did the only permissible thing in the situation, given that the ridiculous liberal nature of today's social climate would have caused more harm than good... suspension of the victim from class, fines, who knows. It's unfortunate though.

This discussion has been limited to bullying by (and of) boys. Anyone have any experience with bullying of (and by) girls?

Fight Club!!!11

My sister was a victim of bullying for a while. With girls it's a whiole different animal because most of it occurs at an emotional level, and is arguably much more damaging. Though there is significant occurrence of violence there as well. Also more damaging than with boys because women take a lot of pride and indeed take cues regarding their self-worth from how they look.

There was no violence in her case, and she was hard-headed enough to not be too deeply affected by it. It did however kill her youthful innocence rather early, and now she is a grade-A ***** (and proud of it, too) if one allows her to be so