Video Games

GQgeek · Jun 20, 2010

I just bought ffxiii. I know it's not as good as 7. Hopefully it'll be decent. Will be playing from my couch on a 104" screen.

chronoaug · Jun 20, 2010

Originally Posted by JD_May

Still no one has given me any heads up on good current RPG franchises other than mass effect.

tbh 2 games is hardly a franchise. not a lot of longterm games these days. Seems in the 90s/early 00s there were games spanning like 5 games a lot more. I think after like 2-3 games nowadays people just get bored. I mean, bioshock is nothing special but still cool/fun and the 2nd game got a lot of hype but i bet #3 will be on the downslope (just an example)

AR_Six · Jun 20, 2010

****, dude, I'll take just one game if it's actually complete. The way console games are designed these days, they want you to be able to play through them so fast that they can't make RPGs. It takes a lot of gameplay time to maintain an interesting plot and actually develop characters to a point where you actually give a **** about them. Take Uncharted, for example - good game, but I beat it in 6 hours. This seems to be the way of things these days - main plotlines now feel like sidequests did. Okay, that's an exaggeration, more like the whole game feels like it should be "chapter 1". FF13 I haven't finished, but I was maybe 3/4 through it and the amount of actual story they'd put in to that point would have taken up... half of disc 1 of a PS1 square game? Maybe?

breakz · Jun 20, 2010

Have you tried looking to past RPGs you missed? What older systems do you have?

I hear amazing things about the Persona series. If you're not averse to JRPGs, they're available for PS2.

AR_Six · Jun 20, 2010

I have a PS2 around here somewhere. I am moving and would have to ship it to myself. I have ePSXe to do PS1 games on and I'm thinking of building a nice desktop and hooking it up to an HDTV as a monitor.

Seriously, though, how sad a state of affairs is it that the only option in this world of console domination of the video game market that I have to go back to PS1 to find something decent? FML, it wasn't that long ago that the medium wasn't even legitimate enough to warrant TV commercials for games.

breakz · Jun 20, 2010

Maybe you should like a genre that angry 8-year-olds enjoy?

AR_Six · Jun 21, 2010

I am cursed that I do not at all like button mashers or FPS. I should just go back and play Heroes of Might and Magic III whenever I'm bored.

Brian SD · Jun 21, 2010

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I'm just arguing that it's a poor design decision. If you make a game with lots of cutscenes, aren't you cutting out the player-game interaction? That's like releasing a movie with lots of text on the screen--you're cutting out the biggest strength available to the medium, so you'll have to rely on other tools to capture the audience.

Click to expand...

Using cut scenes in games is perfectly fine. Interaction with the player, like all aspects of game design, should be controlled to the director's taste. I can see why people prefer fewer um interactive cut scenes in their games, but honestly it's getting on my nerves how much I'm hearing these days that cut scene heavy storytelling is the devil.

Cut scenes allow a lot of things that you don't get out of games
like Half Life. The player gets a breather and can let go of the controller for a bit, the camera angles are pre-determined so you won't miss out on something going on if you're not looking, and most importantly how much control the player has on the experience is controlled. not every game should be attempting to immerse the player so much into his character, as say Half Life.

That isn't to say that the other way around isn't good. I like both and appreciate both - what happens between the gameplay is not nearly as important as the gameplay itself, which is why I would love to see this debate die. If 90% of stories in games were done the Valve way, people would praise the devs who give a more scripted experience, simply because it's different.

To argue that games themselves are "interactive" thus all components must allow player interaction is, to me, arguing for a gimmick. Director controlled interactivity is important to design and storytelling, and even can be used as experienced commentary on the player and character connection as well. It's why Metal Gear Solid 2 and 4 are so brilliant to those of us who can look deeper past the shallow-most plot lines.

Final Fantasy 13 was a poorly designed game because the afternoon drama plot couldn't carry the mundane gameplay and hallway-cutscene-hallway-cutscene pacing. It's not right to blame the design philosophy itself when other directors are using it well.

Click to expand...

Brian SD · Jun 21, 2010

God damn it's hard to be cohesive when you're posting from a mobile device. Sorry for that mess!

breakz · Jun 21, 2010

That's a good point Brian, and I do appreciate how cutscenes give me a break from time to time.

I just wanted to pop in and say that I'm anticipating Portal 2 and the new Deus Ex unlike any other game I've seen in years. Too bad both probably won't be released until late next year.

Nananine · Jun 21, 2010

I disagree, there are ways to give players breathers without resorting to cut scenes. The video communication logs in Dead Space or just by simply allowing the player limited movement (everywhere in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare). Alpha Protocol did them very well by making them not only interactive, but critical to the experience.

I don't mind cutscenes, but they're not a good way to communicate information to the player. Players skip them more often than not

Brian SD · Jun 21, 2010

Originally Posted by Nananine

I disagree, there are ways to give players breathers without resorting to cut scenes. The video communication logs in Dead Space or just by simply allowing the player limited movement (everywhere in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare). Alpha Protocol did them very well by making them not only interactive, but critical to the experience.

I don't mind cutscenes, but they're not a good way to communicate information to the player. Players skip them more often than not

I wasn't trying to say that cut scenes are necessary simply because they give the player a breather, I was saying that it's one of the benefits to them, should a director decide to go down that route. The most important thing is that it puts your character in a state which you can't control. It can be a pain ********** - particularly in games like Devil May Cry, where your character does combat moves in cutscenes that you can't actually perform in game. I hate that ****.

Being able to move around during cutscenes isn't always a good thing. For one, more often than not exacerbates the sterility of the environment and makes the characters appear even more robotic, as they turn to you with perfect precision and lift their arms robotically to make a point. It's something I've always disliked about Half-Life, despite the overall high quality of the whole thing. Another is that the artificial barriers in place during them are even more obvious and frustrating.

Following your logic, movies are also inherently a useless tool for communication.

The way I see it, there are basically three groups of games:

1) Long cutscenes where most of the story progression is done through them. Metal Gear Solid, Uncharted, Gears of War, Halo

2) Short, transitionary cutscenes - God of War, Shadow of the Colossus

3) Cutscenes where the player's perspective isn't modified - Half Life, Call of Duty, most story-driven FPSs

All of them have their positive moments are their negatives. The first group has scripted, choreographed visual spectacles but is the least interactive. The second group blends together what the player experiences as a spectator and as a controller. The third doesn't break the immersion factor and thus is the most interactive, but also suffers from the problems mentioned above.

javyn · Jun 21, 2010

For anyone interested: Here is an amd64 installer for Grim Fandango, one of the most awesomest games ever made! FYI: this is the installer only to run on 64bit OS, you still need the game disc itself suckas. http://www.start64.com/index.php?opt...1539&Itemid=72

chronoaug · Jun 26, 2010

As sad as this sounds (is), i don't think i have the attention span to play RPGs anymore. I dunno why but i haven't been able to get into them the past year or so. Probably will force myself to finish FFXIII and then play Dragon Quest IX next month. Still weird though. I guess it's because i generally don't have 3-4 uninterrupted hours at a time to play them. That's part of the problem. RPGs are best played in big chunks. I want to get back into it though so will try to be more diligent during my days off

Brian SD · Jun 26, 2010

I have the attention span to play GOOD RPGs. That sad thing is there aren't too many out there these days. Ninokuni looks good. FFVS13 could be good. But I'll hold my breath for Persona 5.

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