The OneShirt: A Phoenix from the Ashes [4/24/13 UPDATE: A SHIRTMAKER, AN ENGLISHMAN, CHAMBRAY, AND F

I mean, how would you make a shirt where the pieces are 18" wide? I know there's a tradition of piecing sleeves to save fabric, but you'd have to piece the back with 18" wide fabric. Well, possibly a little guy like you wouldn't, but anybody else would.

mafoofan said:

Yes, that's exactly the point. There have been at least two different chambrays coming out of Simonnot Godard (not counting the voile). The rough, denim-like stuff was woven in the shorter width you're talking about--because it came off of the really old looms. This newer chambray obviously comes off more modern looms, given the whole meter width and frayed selvedge. It sounds like the rougher stuff may not be made anymore.

The voile is a whole different animal from either of the two chambrays. As discussed in my blog, the warp and weft tell the story. So, what Will calls "new chambray" is voile, but Simonnot Godard also makes a new chambray that is new chambray.

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What I'm saying is that the "real" Chambray he sells from the supposed 18th century looms is 150 cm wide. I realize the kind you got might be different, but I've never heard anyone mention 1/2 meter widths before now. Not that I've followed the subject closely, but still. It sounds improbable.



Quarantanove said:

Have you tried Bonfanti's chambray?  I prefer it to both sorts of SG chambray, because I prefer the slightly greyer blue.  They are done on full metre width looms, but in hand and durability, I can't spot a difference with the SG half metre sort.  Its just as "fuzzy" too.

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I haven't seen it, actually. Sounds promising, but too late for me! I'm all sunk in.



Ataturk said:

I mean, how would you make a shirt where the pieces are 18" wide? I know there's a tradition of piecing sleeves to save fabric, but you'd have to piece the back with 18" wide fabric. Well, possibly a little guy like you wouldn't, but anybody else would.

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Oops. Half-width doesn't equate with a half meter. Half-width means roughly one meter.

Thanks for catching the error--it's been fixed.

I don't disagree with you that the 150cm stuff comes from newer looms and the 36" from older (not 18th century, just older than the newer ones). That's my impression, but I really don't know where I got it from. Probably here.

That being said, I think you're still wrong about the original "real" SG chambray. Will says it's 150cm.

http://store.asuitablewardrobe.net/chambrayshirting.aspx

A famous-on-the-internet medium weight (140 grams per square meter) shirting that is woven in France on 18th century looms, our chambray is usually available only to the friends and family of Simonnot-Godard, the world's best handkerchief weaver. The slightly textured finish works well with flannel and tweed jackets. Offered in light blue, peach and pink.

Please note that this shirting is 150 cm wide and sold by the half meter, with a minimum order quantity of four half meters (two meters).

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The SG chambray I got from Will has is the blue-white version. I haven't seen the blue-light blue version you speak of in your blog post. Mine also looks more textured than yours.

I looked at Bonfanti recently but didn't see a blue chambray in stock.



Ataturk said:

I don't disagree with you that the 150cm stuff comes from newer looms and the 36" from older (not 18th century, just older than the newer ones). That's my impression, but I really don't know where I got it from. Probably here.

That being said, you still haven't addressed why the original "real" SG chambray is 150cm.

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I have no idea what exact width WIll's stuff was. It seems he might have gotten in different sorts at different times. All I'm saying is that there exists a half-width, old-loomed chambray from Simonnot Godard that is distinct from this newer chambray. If the shirting you saw from Will was full-width, it is NOT the "original" old-loomed chambray.



mafoofan said:

I have no idea what exact width WIll's stuff was. It seems he might have gotten in different sorts at different times. All I'm saying is that there exists a half-width, old-loomed chambray from Simonnot Godard that is distinct from this newer chambray. If the shirting you saw from Will was full-width, it is NOT the "original" old-loomed chambray.

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The SG chambray I got from Will was full width. Was the 1/2 width SG you saw Rubinacci deadstock? Might not be available any more.



poorsod said:

The SG chambray I got from Will has is the blue-white version. I haven't seen the blue-light blue version you speak of in your blog post. Mine also looks more textured than yours.

I looked at Bonfanti recently but didn't see a blue chambray in stock.

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Again, here are the three different shirtings from SG I am now aware of:

1. Old-loomed chambray (half-width, blue warp + white weft)
2. New-loomed chambray (full-width, blue warp + white weft)
3. Voile (full-width, light blue warp and weft)

The chambray you got from Will might be the first one listed. I never said they made a chambray with blue warp and blue weft--that would be impossible, as it would no longer be a chambray. Check the width of the shirting you have. Barring that, recall whether the selvedge was frayed and fuzzy like in my photos. If so, you have new-loomed chambray.

Will calls number three "new chambray." That's a particularly confusing label, since it is not chambray, and there IS a new chambray.



poorsod said:

The SG chambray I got from Will was full width. Was the 1/2 width SG you saw Rubinacci deadstock? Might not be available any more.

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Then your stuff was not woven on old looms. It is probably the same stuff as what I have--the photos might just make it look different. That, or SG has manufactured yet another species of new-loomed chambray . . . which I refuse to fathom.

The half-width stuff is probably no more. When you look through chambray at Rubinacci, they now show you multiple swatches of various solid, blue shades. So they are clearly not exclusively using SG anymore.

I like this idea, but I'd take it further, towards its inevitable zenith/nadir - chambray footed onesie pajamas. You know it makes sense.

I'm confused - so ASW only sells the 'new' chambray now? I have the old half-width stuff, and liked that quire a bit.



Eustace Tilley said:

I'm confused - so ASW only sells the 'new' chambray now? I have the old half-width stuff, and liked that quire a bit.

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Will is out of all chambray. He has voile, which he sometimes calls "new chambray." That is not the stuff I have, which is true chambray, though woven on newer looms and in full-width.

It sounds like he has at times sold both the old-loomed chambray and the new-loomed chambray--rightfully calling both "chambray."

Who's on first? In an odd way, this whole crowd-decoding of disorganized Old World maker products takes me back to the earlier days of SF when people were trying to figure things out, and everything wasn't as clearly laid out or #menswear as it is today. It's kind of exciting, in a clothing-nerd way.

FWIW, here is a picture of my CCBDs done with what I believe is the original SG chambray, ordered when Will first offered it (which is after he offered the voile as the actual chambray). I've seen the old chambray on iammatt's AM shirt, and mine has the same variegation and the same spongey texture, which I don't see in Foo's picture:


edit: the full-sized pic is here so you don't have to deal with SF's resizing which adds artifacts that obscure the texture: http://cdn.styleforum.net/3/38/38a233a3_3shirts.jpeg

Here:

SG Voile (Will's "new chambray")


SG Old-loomed Chambray


SG New-loomed Chambray (real "new chambray")

Another possibility is that it gets the "old" look after a few washes.