Frank and Oak vs Everlane - Page 2
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Would recommend people stay away from the button down collars if you like a nice roll on them. The best shirts seem to be more casual, soft, spread collars. The small accessories seem to be junk other then the belts which are nice.
I got on the site and some of the stuff looks ok so I ordered the pants and the shirt. They got it shipped out relatively fast. The clothes came in a nice shoebox with a orange sticker and a what looks like a handwritten note. I hate to be so snarky but what on earth and I going to do with this sticker? Put it on my car? The handwritten note is a nice touch, in theory. I think Epaulet does a great job of this. The Frank and Oak note is basically illegible but it appears to say "Create your unexpected." I'm not quite sure what this means, especially coming from a box with a pair of chinos and a grey denim shirt. I think I get what they are going for with a free sticker and a personalized, though impersonal, note but it all kind of left me scratching my head.
The chinos look pretty nice and are a relatively modern slim cut. the construction looks decent. I put them on and realized that they have a lot of stretch to them. Wearing them feels kind of like wearing sweatpants. Kind of crazy, but they actually look normal. I've never worn pants like that but they are definitely very very comfortable. I can't say I'm upset and the price was definitely right so I'm going to keep them. I haven't had a chance to try on the shirt but it looks ok. I'm going to hold off on a making any judgements about quality until I've washed these clothes.
Bought a few cheap pieces from Frank & Oak for a messy costume party (shirt; bow tie; chinos). With the particular items I bought, the quality was quite poor (material and craftmanship). This wasn't a big surprise, given the cheap prices. I would only buy items that you only intend on wearing once or a handful of times, or don't want to worry about ruining (as in my case!)
I have an Everlane tee - very soft, washes well, fits long (good for tall and slim builds), and quality is solid. The collar is not magic (starting to droop after 10+ washes), but I don't mind the look.
I also have an Everlane oxford in light blue- fit is slim in the waist and snug on broad shoulders. They are true to the measurements on the site, however. Quality feels good and have washed well - although not as good as other brands (my Fillipa K oxfords seem have washed better).
Sidenote: Frank & Oak spammed me hard after signing up. Big pet peeve!
About two months ago I got a chino blazer and a terry cloth shawl collar cardigan via their Hunt Club crate. The chino blazer was all I expected from them - poor fit, cheap material, and by no means good value at $100. I returned it right away.
The cardigan, though, hit it right out of the park. It's an interesting experience: I ordered the Hunt Club crate only to check out the blazer, then threw the cardigan in as an afterthought, but it was the cardigan that blew me away. Decent construction, fantastic fit, in a very endearing color. A lot of people complimented me on it and asked where I got it from.
With this confidence, I ordered a pair of their beige cords last week. This time there was an even bigger surprise. The cords came looking like a piece of cardboard, as dull as dead. Even H&M will never make something like this (at least they get the looks right.)
So after these two experiences, I'm back to square one on my impression of Frank & Oak. In fact, seeing how their bloated their catalog has become I wouldn't say they are one to focus on quality. I will continue ordering the crate with hope to gauge out rare gems like the cardigan above, but I won't ever buy anything a la carte because of their return policy.
Let me start by saying that I still shop with F&O because I don't have a choice: I failed to read that their return policy is for store credit and thus locked myself into a situation where I need to spend about $130 with them in order to use up that credit. One result of this is that I've ended up ordering (and return) about a dozen different items from them over the last six months so I feel, at least, I'm familiar with their pros and cons. Those include:
-I like the design of many of their shirts: they're more playful (but not trying too hard) and visually appealing for those who want more than office-friendly dress shirts.
-Their fit is very slim, perhaps the most slim of any OTR shirt I've found so far (this has its drawbacks in other parts of the shirt, see below). For those skinny dudes complaining that even "extra slim" cuts by other makers are still too baggy, it's hard to imagine anyone saying that of F&O shirts.
-Their "try at home" Hunt Club system isnt' a bad way to, you know, try things out without being on the hook for paying for them first and then asking for a refund. I wish I had used them more wisely in the beginning (i.e. before I realized they don't do refunds, only credit).
-I like their silk knit ties and their pocket squares: they're nothing spectacular but they seem decently made and are priced well. However, their ties keepers are generally sewed sloppily. I had one that was practically unsewn on one end when I first got it and then another one was more narrow than it should have been. Poor craftsmanship there (and not unique to just their ties).
-They made a canvas jacket (the Arland) that I was genuinely sad to have to send back. I loved the style and material and the shoulder/chest cut was near perfect. The arms though? (See below).
-They use some of the cheapest cotton I've ever felt. And look: I'm not some "Sea Island or death" dude (I don't even own a Sea Island cotton shirt) but even as a noob, it just feels incredibly cheap, like you're wearing something made from paper.
-Their shirts tend to have very inexplicably narrow arms. I don't know if Canadians have some unusually skinny arms but I have what I think are fairly slim arms and on some shirts, it actually hurt to bend my elbow because the shirt material would bunch on. This was the problem with the Arland jacket; the jacket looked fine...if you kept your arms straight but if you had to bend them? No go. It made no sense from a basic functionality point of view.
-Their return system - besides only being for credit - is terrible. The upside is that if you're a Hunt Club member, shipping both ways is free, but returns usually take 5 business days to reach their US return center which is really a hub for them to THEN ship things back to Toronto. I've literally waited a month or more to have a return processed (and then, it was only b/c I wrote their customer service to ask, "what's up?"). The whole system seems woefully inefficient.
-Their customer service typically takes 48-72 hours to get back to you via email. And I've never been able to raise them on the phone even though they list their number on the site.
-There's no search mechanism on their site. There's not even a filter mechanism (i.e. "show me only red shirts"). And given that their styles come and go within weeks, the only way to try to see if they still have the style you want is to scroll through the entire site. It really makes no sense to me that an online-only company has such bad UI.
The thing is: I don't think their basic business model is poor. Their pricing is quite competitive (but of course, the poor quality of their material cuts into that advantage). And I do like their style of shirts - if they used better material and made their arms a little roomier, I'd put up with all their other shortcomings. But of course, they don't do either. Once I use up this credit with them, I'm out.
I am also out once I use up my $130 in store credit. I own some shirts and ties from them that I really like, but lately the new designs have been weak, I find branding of any kind on clothes to be a dealbreaker, and since they've gone nuts on that in the last few months I've been staying away. I think I will use up the store credit on ties, maybe one more shirt, or a dress belt if one shows up. Their bottoms/trousers and blazers I avoid at all costs.
My name is Roger, Team Lead in customer service at Frank & Oak. I have read this thread and do appreciate the constructive criticism of our website and our products. Over the past year, our designers have collected feedback from our members in order to improve the fits and sizing of our clothes. As well, we took such comments to improve other aspects of our website with regards to the design and layout. Right now and for the upcoming months, we have a great stable of blazers coming up as well as other products. Again, the constructive comments on here are very valuable and we appreciate every single one. It enables us to continuously strive to be the best brand we can be and improve our service in all facets. If you have any questions or concerns about past orders or any issues, feel free to contact us at email@example.com and we will be glad to assist. Additionally, you can use this discount code worth 10% off your next order. FRANKCARES10
My last Hunt Club crate will be the last I ever order from you guys. I ordered a wool sweater and a merino cardigan, both of which turned out to be incredibly low quality and shoddily made. They are not even Styleforum low quality; they are common mass market low-quality. The wool sweater had one sleeve longer than the other by two inches, and the merino cardigan was so thin you can see through it like a curtain. Not even H&M or Forever 21 will stoop to that kind of low quality. It made me feel incredibly embarrassed to have even bothered to order them to my home. And to think you charge $50 for each of them. Beyond ridiculous.
I have not bought anything from Everlane yet (they are always out of my size for the one thing I want) but their CS has been good.