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Gaziano & Girling Appreciation & Shoe Appreciation Theard - Page 295

post #4411 of 13629
Nice Luk-cha. The hand sewn apron looks nice and the welt looks awesome.

Why the double sole?

And the color.....
post #4412 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaves View Post


Now that's hardcore p0rn.

You think? I really just like the leather on this one not the model..

post #4413 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
A seam allows you to take a flat piece of leather and stitch it into a shape the somewhat resembles the shoe, a little bit of stretching and shaping is still required to get proper fit on the last but it should be within the leathers natural stretch limits.
A seemless wholecut has no seems so you have to stretch the leather tremendously especially around the heel and ankle area, so much so that sometimes it is past the leathers tensile limits or always very close to it
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
I have tried this...successfully...and in my somewhat limited experience with this specific style I would have to say that your remarks are not quite correct or...perhaps, better...not quite complete.
Generally speaking, the problem is too much leather. So that you must have some way of eliminating the excess. Some leathers...veg tans...will form to a shape fairly easily and some (not all) of the excess can be subsumed in the shape. Functionally, this means compressing pipes and wrinkles to the point where they are not visible.
Other leathers (chrome tans) must be stretched to remove excess. It's the only way. And in such circumstances such leathers may be overworked, it's true. And as a result softer tannages are often used--which in turn don't have the strength that firmer leathers have.
When I did this, the leather I used was a retan ( a tannage of both chrome and vegetable). I had more problems with excess than I might have if the leather had been full veg, but less than with a chrome. As it was, I never felt that I had over-stretched the leather but the excess was very slightly visible. Since the leather was naturally "textured", it was almost impossible to see this if you were not a shoemaker or had a great deal of experience.
Anyway, the point is that while the style presents problems, they don't necessarily have to affect either the integrity of the leather nor the customer's satisfaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenon View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
First off, for anyone following this part know that DWFII is the expert here.
This is interesting and good to know. I was not aware that veg tan would as you say "subsume" to this level . Does this cause the leather to thicken substantially in such areas? My train of thought was definitely on chrome tannage and I assumed the throat area and surrounding would have been cut with a much smaller circumferance than last in order to avoid the large excess below.
When doing this do you wet the veg tan upper completely, not at all...? I have little knowledge of chrome-veg retans, are the characteristics almost always somewhere in between veg and chrome, or do they sometimes behave strictly like one or the other.
BTW who do you use for veg and veg retan uppers? have you tried Weinheimer's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWFII View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Well, thank you for the kind words but no, I'm not an expert esp. with seamless whole cuts. That said, I know enough about leathers, and making shoes and patterns for shoes, that I was successful doing this the first time out of the gate...never a sure thing.
Fundamentally, the upper is cut as an overlarge "blocker"--just a big flat piece of leather--and then it is wet thoroughly and stretched over the last from the top of the last towards the bottom. From the forepart to the instep it is pretty straight-forward...like lasting a shoe. But from the instep back to the heel all the excess must be moved along a vertical surface. And this is the longest distance that the leather must be moved.
Naturally, forcing pipes and wrinkles into smaller and smaller dimensions tends to thicken the leather...if stretch is not also applied simultaneously. But around the throat--the topline--there shouldn't be any significant excess left nor any real over-stretching.
Only after the leather has been stretched over the last is the pattern cut.
The bad news is that even if the pipes and wrinkles are entirely subsumed not all of the excess is eliminated...some of it remains in the leather. The good news is that much of it will be positioned over the heel stiffener and will be reinforced. Plus, the heel area does not get a lot of stretching or flexing when the shoe is worn.
I do not know of Weinheimers but very few tanners make veg tan leathers that are finished and suitable for shoe uppers...and almost none of those tanners are in the States. I get pure veg where and when I can and veg retans as water buffalo calf from an outfit in New Hampshire (?)--Garlin Leathers.
--

Quote:
Originally Posted by shoefan View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
In a series of articles in The Rake Online, Simon Crompton shows pics of some seamless loafers that G&G have underway for him. If you see part 4 (5/3/2012) and click through to the full article, you can a number of pictures of the upper being stretched over the last, and the amount of leather that has to be dealt with, particularly around the heel. Even in the upper they show after the stretching is done, you can see some 'pipes' on the outside of the shoe in the quarter area.
The leather is fully wetted before it is stretched over the last; when wet, veg tan becomes much more pliable. Furthermore, as it dries it tends to shrink a bit -- a good think when you are trying to get it tight to the last --, and when fully dried it tends to hold its new shape.
DW -- I think you are referring to Garlin-Neumann Leather
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bengal-stripe View Post

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
There are (so far) five articles in this series. The blocking (crimping) is shown in section 4. You can see the big excess of leather in the heel area that needs to be (re)moved.
http://www.therakeonline.com/read.php?id=40&d=2012-02-07&t=Gaziano-&-Girling-bespoke
http://www.therakeonline.com/read.php?id=54&d=2012-03-01&t=Gaziano-&-Girling-bespoke-2
http://www.therakeonline.com/read.php?id=77&d=2012-04-12&t=Gaziano-&-Girling-bespoke-3
http://www.therakeonline.com/read.php?id=84&d=2012-05-03&t=Gaziano-&-Girling-bespoke-4
http://www.therakeonline.com/read.php?id=110&d=2012-07-12&t=Gaziano-&-Girling-bespoke-5
That particular leather, the Italian version of the Russia Calf is a chrome tanned leather (maybe veg re-tanned) unlike the original Metta Katharina leather which is veg tanned (chrome tanning wasn't invented some 200 years ago). The leather blocks beautifully. I have a pair of whole-cut (not seemless) Chelsea boots and was present when the closer blocked it. The leather went very easily onto the board, almost easier than the veg tanned and thinner lining leather (which was also whole-cut).
For thosewho think seamless whole-cuts self-destruct: the Northampton shoe museum has some samples on show, made by a worker in one of the factories prior to WWI. Aparently those seamless whole-cuts were his hobby. After 100 years, the shoes must have out-lived their original owners
.

All this knowledge...I love it.
post #4414 of 13629
Thread Starter 
@fritzl

Yeah these should also have a stunning leather too, Tony is custom dying it, thro the last and style wont be to your taste
post #4415 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ay329 View Post

Nice Luk-cha. The hand sewn apron looks nice and the welt looks awesome.
Why the double sole?
And the color.....

I like the dove but like fritzl dont like the heel counter, so if i am gonna do coutry shoe best to make it with a double sole imo

Whats wrong with the color?????
post #4416 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by unbelragazzo View Post

Fuck me sideways with a broomstick, those are gorgeous...what's the add-on for using this kind of leather, anybody know?

Dunno if this leather is available for mto, best contact them dirrectly
post #4417 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Ay329 View Post

Why the double sole?

because it's the rule for norwegers and the almighty shoe god only approves double. sheez, this is not your first day here...
post #4418 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

@fritzl
Yeah these should also have a stunning leather too, 1. Tony is custom dying it, 2. thro the last and style wont be to your taste

1. hmm ok.
2. this isn't surprising...
post #4419 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

because it's the rule for norwegers and the almighty shoe god only approves double. sheez, this is not your first day here...

agree! some should need to made in a certain way, if these had been a single sole with the beveling and fiddle for me they would need to be 2 - 4 eyelet's to make the more city
post #4420 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

1. hmm ok.
2. this isn't surprising...

i have the sample in my draw if i remeber i will snap it for you

such as life ;-)
post #4421 of 13629

Good, those were geriatric looking. I don't think even fritzl would wear those peepwall[1].gif
post #4422 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

i have the sample in my draw if i remeber i will snap it for you
such as life ;-)

biggrin.gif
post #4423 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

biggrin.gif

sent it too you, let me know if you got it
post #4424 of 13629
Quote:
Originally Posted by luk-cha View Post

sent it too you, let me know if you got it

not yet. have to clean the mailbox. good inspiration happy.gif
post #4425 of 13629
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fritzl View Post

not yet. have to clean the mailbox. good inspiration happy.gif

ok let me know if you dont get it
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