Cars We Drive!

Boss 302 > GT500. Save the $12k and thank me later.

impolyt_one said:

and don't go in the first week of May, as it's Golden Week and everything will be shut down for the entire 7 days.

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Thanks for the tip.



RFX45 said:

Boss 302 > GT500. Save the $12k and thank me later.

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yeah, i agree. but i already have two well balanced street machines that perform well on the track. kind of looking for something i can tune into a high HP/TQ monster next

it's not gonna be this year anyway so let's see what comes on the market in the next 18-24 months



RFX45 said:

The Panamera is just borderline station wagon to and it's overall shape is more odd and awkward in my eyes.

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it's a very impressive car, imo.



HRoi said:

yeah, i agree. but i already have two well balanced street machines that perform well on the track. kind of looking for something i can tune into a high HP/TQ monster next
it's not gonna be this year anyway so let's see what comes on the market in the next 18-24 months

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Why would you use an american car, as a base for a track other than price, european and asian cars are much better suitred for that matter and they produce more hp from the same engine size.

I have always wondered what kind of HP the viper or corvette would have had, if their engines had been developed by mb, bmw, porsche, Nissan etc.

some nice cars went on sale. did anybody score?

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/14/historic-porsche-collection-going-up-for-auction-at-amelia-islan/

also would be interested on the opinion of the singer porsches. anybody?

Nothing is more exciting or scary then 450+ mad American horses on floppy old suspension. Pull up to the red light next to the riced out civic and punch the gas. Just to feel the ass end hopping through the intersection in a nice cloud of smoke... At least this is what my Trans Am did with heads/cam till the rear end blew out.

~Kurt

I think the adding a GT-R to a collection that includes a v8 M3 and a GT3 would only further complicate things, the GT-R and GT3 are obviously pretty different but I think they'd be competing for attention... maybe even end up offloading the Porsche? On the other hand, I can understand getting one of those big-power muscle cars if what you want to do is drag around in one. If it's later down the road, you might even look at a used ZR-1.

fritzl said:

some nice cars went on sale. did anybody score?
http://www.autoblog.com/2012/02/14/historic-porsche-collection-going-up-for-auction-at-amelia-islan/
also would be interested on the opinion of the singer porsches. anybody?

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I love the Singer, I'd daily drive if I could ever afford one. You have to provide the LWB 964 and then pay the shop low-mid six figures cash though, right?



impolyt_one said:

I love the Singer, I'd daily drive if I could ever afford one. You have to provide the LWB 964 and then pay the shop low-mid six figures cash though, right?

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i have to do a better research, if the original car is included. although, i assume the car which will be converted mustn't necessarily be in the best condition.

based on the standard version they charge € 125 k. +/- the car, which i have to find out.



fritzl said:

i have to do a better research, if the original car is included. although, i assume the car which will be converted mustn't necessarily be in the best condition.
based on the standard version they charge € 125 k. +/- the car, which i have to find out.

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That's... a lot of money for a Porsche, because the thing about that is, it's all at once. That's why I said, I would love to have one, but I'd have to be filthy rich, where the money doesn't matter. The packages go up significantly if you start adding the big power 993 motors and stuff. I mean, you could build something yourself, and it won't have a few of the awesome finishing touches that the Singer has, but you can pay for it as you go too....



impolyt_one said:

That's... a lot of money for a Porsche, because the thing about that is, it's all at once. That's why I said, I would love to have one, but I'd have to be filthy rich, where the money doesn't matter. The packages go up significantly if you start adding the big power 993 motors and stuff. I mean, you could build something yourself, and it won't have a few of the awesome finishing touches that the Singer has, but you can pay for it as you go too....

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well, at this point of customization, i think it is reasonable.

i would much more be afraid of the maintenance. besides the cost factor, you have to find a mechanic, who has the skills to work on it, not?

I don't think the maintenance side of it would require anything special, as long as you have the specs on the motor. It's just a built 993 motor, people have seen those before. The bodywork is unique, though, so I guess if you ever lost a rear flare or something, you'd probably have to get a way to get one from California.



Find Finn said:

Why would you use an american car, as a base for a track other than price, european and asian cars are much better suitred for that matter and they produce more hp from the same engine size.
I have always wondered what kind of HP the viper or corvette would have had, if their engines had been developed by mb, bmw, porsche, Nissan etc.

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what I was trying to say was that the Boss 302 appeals to me the most as a balanced track car, because there are more powerful cars out there. but i''m not looking for a balanced track car because I already have one (even though I actually haven't gotten around to taking it on the track yet)...so to try something different with the next car it would be kinda cool to have a straight-line beast like the Shelby or ZR1...or the GTR, which is actually both a straight line beast and a track monster (that unfortunately has also been beaten with the ugly stick but I guess you can't have it all)

I don't think the Americans are particularly unimaginative, just maybe a bit lazy. the Europeans and Japanese have been forced to focus on efficiency for the displacement because of fuel cost and regulations that don't exist in the US. when needed, the Americans can build a car that turns and brakes with the best of them...but on the "go" side they've really only needed to stuff the biggest engine possible in there, although even that is changing now

Base on $$$ to HP ratio, there really is no beating an American muscle. A ZL1 with 580hp V8 for $54k, Boss 302 with 440hp V8 for $42k, GT500 with 650hp V8 for $54k & CTS-V with 550hp V8 for $64k, heck you can get a Challenger R/T with 375hp V8 for $30k. There really nothing else that can beat that much power for the $$$ so if it just a straight line monster you're looking for, American muscle is the way to go, heavy as hell but if it were light then it wouldn't be a muscle car.



HRoi said:

I don't think the Americans are particularly unimaginative, just maybe a bit lazy. the Europeans and Japanese have been forced to focus on efficiency for the displacement because of fuel cost and regulations that don't exist in the US. when needed, the Americans can build a car that turns and brakes with the best of them...but on the "go" side they've really only needed to stuff the biggest engine possible in there, although even that is changing now

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this sums it up nicely...



Find Finn said:

Why would you use an american car, as a base for a track other than price, european and asian cars are much better suitred for that matter and they produce more hp from the same engine size.
I have always wondered what kind of HP the viper or corvette would have had, if their engines had been developed by mb, bmw, porsche, Nissan etc.

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One of the desirable qualities in a track car is the need for the engine to stand up to many hours of abuse. For this, a big, "lazy" engine that is putting out less power than it could is a good thing. A big, naturally aspirated V8 or V10 with relatively low compression, low rpm, and low stress will last longer than a finely tuned tiny engine that relies on high rpm and/or high boost to generate power. How many of the Japanese or German sports cars can spend 40-60 minutes on a track without overheating? (even the so-called "track specific" models?)

Viper engines are lazy engines. They were designed that way on purpose. Put a supercharger on them, and you get 800hp. Put twin turbos on them, and you get 1000+ hp. But in stock form, there is a lot of unused potential that translates into track durability. Factory Vipers dominated endurance racing because of their big lazy engines.

Having a big, flat torque curve is another benefit of a big lazy engine.

So, I guess we have a difference of opinion regarding engine size and track use. I'm definitely a believer that a Viper or a Corvette make great track platforms in no small part because they have bigger engines.

HRoi said:

..so to try something different with the next car it would be kinda cool to have a straight-line beast like the Shelby or ZR1...or the GTR, which is actually both a straight line beast and a track monster (that unfortunately has also been beaten with the ugly stick but I guess you can't have it all)

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The ZR1 is a "straight line beast?" There are only a very few cars that can keep up with a ZR1 on a track. I would not characterize it as a "straight line" car.