H. Moser & Cie Watches?

I was checking out some Moser watches at Cellini and have to say they look stunning in person. What do our resident WIS' think of this make? I know its a recently resurrected brand, and I'm curious to learn more of its reputation in the community.

Thanks,
ET

everything you ever wanted to know:


http://www.europastar.com/europastar..._id=1003565909

Many have forgotten, but Heinrich Moser, born in 1805 in Schaffhausen, a descendant of a watch dynasty and himself a watchmaker, emigrated to Russia at the age of 22, where he rapidly established a veritable timekeeping empire under the name of H. Moser & Cie. For his supplies, he founded a factory in Le Locle and also purchased parts from Urban Jürgensen and Jaeger-LeCoultre.
At its height, H. Moser & Cie had 70 different calibres, sold watches to the Imperial Court of Russia, as well as delivered large quantities of timekeepers to Japan, China, Persia, Paris, and New York. Upon his return to his native Schaffhausen, Heinrich Moser contributed greatly to the industrial boom of his city, notably with the construction of a hydroelectric dam on the Rhine, as well as attracting F. A. Jones, the founder of IWC. At his death in 1874, his heirs sold his Russian possessions. The factory in Le Locle continued to produce mechanical movements until 1980, when it closed its doors for good.
The renaissance of H. Moser & Cie is due to the initiative of one man, Dr. Jürgen Lange. Originally from East Germany, he worked for a long time at IWC before deciding to branch out on his own. Gathering together a small group of investors, he re-launched H. Moser & Cie, with Roger Balsiger, a direct descendant of Heinrich Moser, becoming the Honorary President of the Board of Directors and Ambassador for the brand.

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Originally Posted by edmorel

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everything you ever wanted to know:


http://www.europastar.com/europastar..._id=1003565909

Thanks - read that, but was more wondering what the watch nuts thought.

Sigh - love the Perpetual I - just stunning

Anyone else?

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Anyone else?

Sure.

It's a brand-new brand, and thus only time will tell where it ends up on the desirability scale.

One the one hand, there is always the advice, "If you like the watch and see yourself wearing it forever (or a good long time), buy it." But buy it at a fair price. I don't know what they list at, but I have to imagine that at least 30% off list should be obtained.

For anyone that likes a watch, will wear it over a long time, and pays a fair price, I can say, "congrats and enjoy your watch!" The problems arise when one wants to sell a watch on the used market. Then both the price you paid for it AND its place on the desirability scale are highly relevant.

A few examples. There is a robust market for used Rolexes. They hold their value well. But still, one must pay the right price. For a precious metal model (say a gold or platinum President), if you succumb to the 'everyone pays list for a Rolex' mantra, you'll get hosed when you go to sell it. YES there is a market for it, but it will cost you a lot to get out of it if you paid list. Discounts are widely available on gold and platinum models, and the good thing is that there is a good market for them used. The used watch shops in the diamond district of Manhattan will always buy a Rolex.

Similarly, there is a good market for used Panerais and JLC's. Again if you pay the right price, you probably can get out of the watch. At the very least, you can sell it at SOME price. The shops in Manhattan will buy JLC's and Panerais.

Now these Moser watches. If you wear it for 6 months and decide, "You know, I really should have gotten that JLC," what are you going to do? It will be VERY hard to sell. Even if you get 30% off of list, if you can sell it at all you'll take a huge hit. And you may not be able to sell it at all.

Bartolo,

Thanks for the reply. I'm less concerned with the resale value of the watch, but rather with the future direction of the company, i.e. is this a firm that people expect to go the way of a Lange or more like a Blancpain or Zenith.

If its Lange, then the watches are a solid buy at current prices.

I've tried on HM&C watches at a Zurich dealer. Of the line, I prefer the Mayu -- a very nice clean watch. The modular escapement is a very cleaver design. They did have a few reliability problems with early production and I've heard they have sorted it out. They are struggling to scale up production to meet demand -- even the few Swiss dealers are having problems getting watches. As much as I like them, I'd probably go with one of the other tops Swiss brands until HM&C gets a little more traction.

Twotone

PS: If you want to get a watch that probably no one else is wearing, check out Du Bois & Fils. Making watches continuously since 1785. Only sold through the factory.

Originally Posted by Twotone

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I've tried on HM&C watches at a Zurich dealer. Of the line, I prefer the Mayu -- a very nice clean watch. The modular escapement is a very cleaver design. They did have a few reliability problems with early production and I've heard they have sorted it out. They are struggling to scale up production to meet demand -- even the few Swiss dealers are having problems getting watches. As much as I like them, I'd probably go with one of the other tops Swiss brands until HM&C gets a little more traction.

Twotone

PS: If you want to get a watch that probably no one else is wearing, check out Du Bois & Fils. Making watches continuously since 1785. Only sold through the factory.

Heard the same on production issues. Not quality, but rather the fact that they took way too many orders for their Perp model.

Have to agree - the watches are beautiful in a very understated way. The Mayu is also (relatively) reasonable for a watch of its quality.

Wow, nice to see that this company is making watches again. Here's my 1930's H. Moser & Cie that was given new to my grandfather. He recently gave it to me.

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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Bartolo,

Thanks for the reply. I'm less concerned with the resale value of the watch, but rather with the future direction of the company, i.e. is this a firm that people expect to go the way of a Lange or more like a Blancpain or Zenith.

If its Lange, then the watches are a solid buy at current prices.

I think that their future is almost impossible to predict. Chances are they are never going to become a Lange or Blancpain or Zenith; very few do.

Watch companies do need to sell watches, and I suppose many try to do their best to predict or latch onto trends. Personally, I do not like the current Zenith styling, or that of the Blancpain L-Evolutions. But like or dislike (some of; Blancpain makes much more than the L-Evolution) the current styling, each company has a strong place in the history of watchmaking. (I assume that that's what you're talking about with Zenith and Blancpain, as of course Blancpain is much older than Lange as a company.) Moser doesn't have that kind of history as a company per se; rather, someone has resurrected the name and found a distant relative to try to add some 'street cred.'

The watch business is funny; its about more than the mechanics and price. They are luxury items and some people are buying "history" or "style" or "image." We all gravitate to certain brands for various reasons.

Plus I'm not sure what you're really concerned about in owning one of their present releases. Despite some of the current styles of Zenith and Blancpain, watch enthusiasts recognize their achievements including Zenith's El Primero chronograph movement and Blancpain's 50 Fathoms divewatch. I'd be more than happy to wear either (although I don't like the new style 50 Fathoms), and I do own a very nice Blancpain Lemain chronograph.

Why didn't Ed make a veronica moser joke?

Originally Posted by Bartolo

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I think that their future is almost impossible to predict. Chances are they are never going to become a Lange or Blancpain or Zenith; very few do.

Watch companies do need to sell watches, and I suppose many try to do their best to predict or latch onto trends. Personally, I do not like the current Zenith styling, or that of the Blancpain L-Evolutions. But like or dislike (some of; Blancpain makes much more than the L-Evolution) the current styling, each company has a strong place in the history of watchmaking. (I assume that that's what you're talking about with Zenith and Blancpain, as of course Blancpain is much older than Lange as a company.) Moser doesn't have that kind of history as a company per se; rather, someone has resurrected the name and found a distant relative to try to add some 'street cred.'

The watch business is funny; its about more than the mechanics and price. They are luxury items and some people are buying "history" or "style" or "image." We all gravitate to certain brands for various reasons.

Plus I'm not sure what you're really concerned about in owning one of their present releases. Despite some of the current styles of Zenith and Blancpain, watch enthusiasts recognize their achievements including Zenith's El Primero chronograph movement and Blancpain's 50 Fathoms divewatch. I'd be more than happy to wear either (although I don't like the new style 50 Fathoms), and I do own a very nice Blancpain Lemain chronograph.


I guess we’ll have to choose to disagree here. While I appreciate the El Primero and the classic Fifty Fathoms, I think both companies (particularly Zenith) have veered towards the middle of the price / quality pack with styling that is questionable at best.

Blancpain’s “history” is also fairly tenuous – the brand was never a top tier one prior to its reintroduction by Swatch / SMH. I gave the example of Lange, only to demonstrate a recently resurrected brand that has only chosen to improve upon its historical achievements and strive to be amongst the very best of watchmakers.

That being said, both Blancpain and Zenith make some beautiful pieces – the Villeret Moonphase and the Flyback come to mind. Which Lemain do you have?

Here is a good article on Moser:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+di.....-a0200182460

Originally Posted by Eustace Tilley

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I guess we'll have to choose to disagree here. While I appreciate the El Primero and the classic Fifty Fathoms, I think both companies (particularly Zenith) have veered towards the middle of the price / quality pack with styling that is questionable at best.

Blancpain's "history" is also fairly tenuous - the brand was never a top tier one prior to its reintroduction by Swatch / SMH. I gave the example of Lange, only to demonstrate a recently resurrected brand that has only chosen to improve upon its historical achievements and strive to be amongst the very best of watchmakers.

That being said, both Blancpain and Zenith make some beautiful pieces - the Villeret Moonphase and the Flyback come to mind. Which Lemain do you have?

I have a 40mm Leman Flyback chrono with the large date, on the oem stainless steel bracelet. I love the watch, it gets relatively little wrist time, and I'd sell it or trade it but the market isn't very good right now.

One must always weigh price vs. whatever else one wants out of a watch. I'll probably never own a Lange, as they are priced too high for me for what they are.

Originally Posted by edmorel

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everything you ever wanted to know:


http://www.europastar.com/europastar..._id=1003565909

When I saw you post in this threak I thought you were going to post, "ed Watches V. Moser" or something like that.