Is college supposed to inspire you?

yeah, you guys are marsupials. college is working papers. drink, drug, ****. repeat.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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• I have not had a class that I attended because I truly wanted to learn the material
  
• I have not had an adviser give me any advice about undergraduate classes, graduate school, or career

If you haven't had a class you truly wanted to learn stuff from then you picked the wrong major or college just isn't for you. Some people just don't enjoy learning the way you are typically taught in a college class.

If your an undergrad and you want advice then you should go seek it out. Make appointments with professors and talk to them. A lot of what you get out of college results from what you put into it.

Originally Posted by Pennglock

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I have to laugh at your excuse for your exam scores. You're so unlucky that the 10% you don't know gets tested in every single class?! You can't come on here and tell us that nonsense with a straight face... You have a motivation problem- you're just not putting in the hours to study. It's as simple as that. Your peers are probably studying more than you give them credit for, as everyone tends to underrepresent their hours spent studying in top programs. If you're finishing up your junior year, you are not going to turn that GPA around. You're just not, but don't sweat it. There are many more ways to make your mark on the world than by having a 4.0.
When I get back an exam, I mark the parts which I did not understand or did not study. I have on file every exam I've taken since freshman year (except final exams, we are not allowed to see those). There are 57 exams on file; I just counted and on 51 of these I have marked that there was material I did not understand (this does not include errors on material I did understand). So, 89.5% of the time, the part I did not know was on the test. But, my grades are also ****** because:

Originally Posted by chuckseabreeze

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I've had isolated classes like that in high school and college, where you try to learn the homework and assigned material to the best of your ability, and then you get to the test, and every single question is two steps more advanced than anything assigned before.
This is the case for every math, science, or engineering class I've taken at my university (which is almost every class I take). I took one course (Dynamics) over the summer at the state school near my university, and was amazed that the exams were so similar to previous assignments etc.; I got an A in this course. However, I did not start this thread in an attempt to simply defend my academic performance. I recognize that I lack the motivation to do the extra 10% which would fix my problems. But, to clarify, the real question was "is it the responsibility of a college to inspire its students? (or is that completely, 100% the students' responsibility)" I wrote everything else just to show where I was coming from / why I am asking this. AndrewRyanWallace, by top-10-university I meant that my university is ranked in the top-10-overall-nationally by every major source (US News & World Report, etc.) Globally, it is top 15 overall. For my major, it is ranked in the top 20 nationally. For another engineering major, it is #2 nationally. Not that rankings matter much (my decision to come here was not based on rankings), since rankings are so subjective. I wish not to mention the actual name of my university because I don't want to make this just about my university. The reason I said "top 10 university" was to show that I am not questioning my experience at Ass State (where inspiring professors would be few and far between), but rather that I am finding an unfulfilled experience at a prestigious institution where I expected more.

University and grad school were both pretty darn easy for me. I went to top schools the entire time.

1) as was mentioned, assignments, projects, exams, etc are all based on strict grading criteria or formula. Hit exactly that, and you do well.

2) go to class and pay attention to what the professor actually says. In university, I was able to skip probably 75% of the reading simply because the professors generally make it pretty damn clear what material they think is important. When I skipped classes, I did much worse despite studying more. In grad school, I still went to class for the same reason, but I also needed to skim all the readings and write out the key points of each.

I'm not joking about this. On a lot of exams, I would literally write out the key points just like I'm doing now. Then under that, I would write a more in depth explanation with analysis and/or application. Professors seemed to appreciate that.

3) once you have those two parts figured out, you have a lot more free time, and you need to use that free time to explore the things that interest you and get involved with a professor's research in that area. This is where the real inspiration comes from. I don't remember much of what I learned in my courses in university, BUT, I certainly remember the things I worked hard to learn. A good professor will just sort of guide you along, and help smooth out the rough spots as you learn how to do whatever it is you are doing.

Now, all that said, I certainly had professors that sucked. I had a math prof that always said crap like "and obviously, based on the theorem of. . ., we arrive at this solution" and he would skip tons of steps in showing us how to solve stuff.

I also had a prof that said in his opinion, a C (70%) should not be the average, rather 50% should be the average and he wanted to see a normal distribution around it. His tests would include material never covered in class. He claimed that when you teach a group of smart kids, you need to do it that way so that real genius can stand out from the crowd. Generally, the course average on tests was slightly lower than 30% and homework assignments were substantially higher, resulting in a curve just like he wanted.

The key here is that classes I did poorly in were exceptions to the rule. . . and thus it is usually attributable to the professor for some specific reason. When the trend is that you do poorly in all the classes, you need to look internally for a problem.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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There are 57 exams on file; I just counted and on 51 of these I have marked that there was material I did not understand (this does not include errors on material I did understand). So, 89.5% of the time, the part I did not know was on the test. But, my grades are also ****** because:

Either my math skills are not up to par or this formula is not illustrative of your original point. If you did not know anything, 100% of the time the part you did not know will be on the exam. It sounds like you have some things going for you, like indexing every exam you have taken. It really seams to me, like others and myself said above, that you are not willing to play the game by the prof's rules.

I spent a year or two like this. Many appts with the prof's after exams explaining clearly and citing why the answer on the exam was right (and often the text or whatever was wrong, to no avail). Then I decided I was not helping myself and started playing the game how it is supposed to be played.

My best example of this was many years ago during my first degree. It was in some BS criminology class. Should be an easy A. But the prof's ideas and interpretation of the material and research was just wrong at times. Simple as that. Further, the exam questions were often flawed. For example, one stands out: true or false- There are more woman with college degrees in the police force than men in the police force. Well the answer to this has to be false. There is not more woman in total than men policing. The prof of course meant proportionally. But that is not what he asked (the question may have been worded to make it even more clear that my position was correct, I just can not recall). So, I answered with the right answer, got it wrong, went to see him, and left with the same mark. What should I have done? Played the game and given the answer I KNEW he wanted. Why didn't I? I thought I was too smart to play the game.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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The reason I said "top 10 university" was to show that I am not questioning my experience at Ass State (where inspiring professors would be few and far between), but rather that I am finding an unfulfilled experience at a prestigious institution where I expected more.

Don't be such an arrogant ****. Clearly being at a "top 10 University" is no guarantee of quality or inspirational instruction. Read the "how to get a job as a college professor" thread if you need don't understand why this might be.

As to your question, dude, it's all you. Your test taking skills must suck or you really don't know the material. Its not that they just test on what you don't know.

As to the future, just graduate with the best GPA you can and call it good. Its a bit late to drop out now.

i started at a top 10 uni but the women were too difficult to bang. art school!

Possible flaws I see:

1. You assume that you know 90% of the material.
2. You assume that you will get all possible points for answers regarding the material you "know."


As for whether your professors should motivate you - yes, the school should care about getting engaging profs, but even still, it's 95% your job to get into the material and raise your own questions that you talk to the prof. after class about or whatever.

It sounds like you're trying to make excuses for graduating with a ****** GPA.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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I just completed my junior year at a top 10 university, majoring in engineering. I am happy in all respects (social life, sports, volunteering) except academics.

In 25 credits (6 semesters, 4-5 classes per semester):

• I have not had a single professor who gave a **** about their students.
  
• I have not had a class that I attended because I truly wanted to learn the material
  
• I have not had an adviser give me any advice about undergraduate classes, graduate school, or career

I will likely leave this institution with a 2.7 GPA, putting me in the bottom 10% of my class. This ****** GPA is not a reflection of my intelligence. In fact, I do not even feel that this is a reflection of a lesser understanding of material.

I walk into exams knowing about 90% of the material well. Without fail, the 10% I do not know well is on the exams. That, coupled with the fact that exams do not cover 100% of the material, leads to ****** exam scores. (i.e. if an exam covers 50% of the material, 10 / 50 = 20%; I will not know 20% of the exam).

The obvious solution to this problem is to either know 100% of the material well, or to know what material will be on exams.

Knowing 100% of the material well is a result of much work; the fuel for this work is a motivation to truly understand everything about the material. I have only ever been motivated enough to warrant a 90% understanding of the material.

At my university, to know exactly what material will be on exams requires a possibly code-of-conduct-violating private meeting with a professor. And in order for a professor to disclose such information, the professor must have taken a great liking to the student. For a professor to have taken a great liking to the student, the student must have demonstrated a great motivation to understand everything about the material .

So...as you can see, I believe it comes down to motivation. If I had more motivation, I believe that my Grade Point Average would rise an entire point (i.e. to a 3.7) or even higher.

If I am willing to attend every class, complete every problem set (on my own), is it too much to ask that my professors provide any inspiration for me to bridge that gap in my understanding? Is it too much to ask for an adviser that has any input whatsoever in the matter of what to do after undergrad? Is it too much to ask for deans / administration that fill their departments with faculty to inspire students, instead of students having to inspire themselves in spite of the faculty?

Or, Is the lack of motivation completely my fault? Am I a "whining *************" who has demonstrated a lack of potential to accomplish anything and/or picked the wrong major?





NOTE
At this point, I have invested too much time, money and effort towards this school and this degree to change schools or majors. If this thread produces nothing but hold_on_nigga,_I_aint_readin_all_that_shit.jpg and/or


at least it will have given me a laugh.

I'm going to try and break this down...

Except for the top 10 university thing, you sound a lot like me as a student. I had an awful GPA, 2.7ish something or other. I did however know the material and was somewhat smart. From one semester to another I could earn a 2.4 GPA and then a 3.8 the next (happened a few times). I understand the "I knew 90% of the material..." line. It comes from not studying and not actually knowing the material. You "get it" during the lecture which is very different from actually knowing it. Sorry but that's the truth. And it really doesn't matter if your grades show how much you know or learned, the only verifiable way of proving you've learned is your grades.

It really sounds like you don't like your major. However, keep this in mind if you decide that you want to be an engineer. My buddy who is getting some advanced degree at Georgia Tech in some specialized field is probably going to be in the top 1% of his field in the country. He's said in engineering more than any other profession, there will always be more people coming along who are smarter than you and better than you, due to how its knowledge is acquired. So stay on top of your sh*t.

Now, if you don't want to be an engineer or that sounds unappealing, there is no shame and no harm in switching majors. Do it.

As for advice, the schools won't be good at it. I don't know why but it is almost always awful. Teachers care about research. If you want to do some work, see which professors have won teaching awards. I was lucky. I accidentally registered for a course with a guy who was named the best professor in the University System of Georgia, let me tell you it was worth it. He was why I ended up studying political theory. You can easily easily EASILY get help from your professors you really can. Go talk to them during their office hours, talk in class, you'd be amazed how much they want to help you if you do that. You'll be one of the few students who makes effort to talk to them in the time they make for you. Think about that message it sends. It never failed that profs would be more lenient with me if they knew me. Also, they will give a **** about you then too. They are fonts of advice. Use them. You've got to put them to work for you. I think that is what the higher education system is really about, how to learn to coax support out of feigned, callous indifference.

But yeah, in short, you aren't learning the material. Study more. Consider changing majors (you'll know if you want to do this by asking what do you hope to get out of your degree. If it is just a job ask if you really want that job. Answer is likely no). Talk to your professors.

Trust me on that. You aren't whiney just a little dumb (not in a bad way).

Originally Posted by DBoon

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However, I did not start this thread in an attempt to simply defend my academic performance. I recognize that I lack the motivation to do the extra 10% which would fix my problems. But, to clarify, the real question was "is it the responsibility of a college to inspire its students? (or is that completely, 100% the students' responsibility)" I wrote everything else just to show where I was coming from / why I am asking this.

...

The reason I said "top 10 university" was to show that I am not questioning my experience at Ass State (where inspiring professors would be few and far between), but rather that I am finding an unfulfilled experience at a prestigious institution where I expected more.

To address the first part, I think the school ought to inspire people, but teachers need not (if that makes sense). However, the greatest onus is on the student. Plain and simple.

The bold faced claim is such absolute arrogant BS I can't even begin to address it.

I am willing to bet the OP goes to MIT.

Originally Posted by DBoon

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The reason I said "top 10 university" was to show that I am not questioning my experience at Ass State (where inspiring professors would be few and far between), but rather that I am finding an unfulfilled experience at a prestigious institution where I expected more.
I regret this statement. I agree it sounds douche-y to the highest degree. I am a proud product of the public school system and the only reason I did not attend the local state school was because I wanted a smaller setting and more engaging experience (ha, ha). From kindergarten through 12th grade I had a passion to learn things in class everyday; when I realized how unmotivated I really was in college, I considered going into teaching (to try and prevent this from happening to others). I read the "How plausible is it to become a college professor?" thread and sympathize with the situation. What I meant was that if I were in an environment devoid of funding / activity, I could expect a less engaging experience (i.e. starting a College Republicans chapter at Oberlin). And no, I don't attend MIT. I suppose what I am realizing now is that the only way people distinguish universities from one another is grant $$, professors' research accomplishments, etc. In other words, there is no way to quantify the quality of education (especially at the undergraduate level). And I feel as though I have been shafted. The question has more or less been answered: the consensus seems to be that "colleges should inspire students" but most of the time they do not, and that is OK because it is the students' responsibility to inspire themselves. It's strange that in pretty much any other facet of life I would agree: Morbidly Obese Man: Why does everyone tell me to lose weight... Answer: Because if you don't take some action for yourself and live healthily you will die! How could you not realize this; and that your motivation is the matter of life or death? But I honestly feel that there has to be some presentation of the "why" instead of just the "how" at a college. As for my own lack of inspiration (and the documented consequences in the OP), I concur with Pennglock that it is too late for me to change my GPA. And although I would consider edinatlanta's suggestion of a change of major, I am in fact majoring in something slightly different than what I hoped to do career-wise. Sort of an engineer's equivalent of pre-law and pre-med majoring in English and Biology, then going on to JD / MD to learn what they really want to do. Hopefully I haven't hurt my own cause to the degree that I can't progress with education / career in this field. ****, I could always just dropout...