London's shopping scene is the most developed on the planet, beating NYC hands down

This is particularly the case for men, and it is on the low, medium, and high levels and secondhand. Sure, one can get a whole range of fine products in NYC, at a price. For the average fellow, the offerings of London are impossible to rival. One barely need mention the offerings on Jermyn street and Saville Row. Everything a gentleman needs is there and the fashion brands that dominate in the States are generally filtered out. There are shops that cater to the middle level customer like T. M. Lewin and Reiss. Whether he is a fussy traditionalist or a slavish fashionista, there is a good deal of choice. The low level is especially impressive though.

Witnessing the London high street makes me wonder why exactly the US fashion retail scene is so weak. Topman provides for the hip young male better than any other chain. River Island, though ****** in quality, offers on-trend rags that are simply not available in the States. I hate to praise fast fashion, since we are all hoping it's heading toward its demise as consumers invest in better quality (see the latest issue of Newsweek). Still, the brands in England have been very clever about the whole thing.

The amount of selection of shoes from the 10 pound to 1,000 pound levels, with few gaps, is perhaps the most impressive aspect of this. There is everything from Office, to Swear, to the selection in Topman, to Grenson, Barker and C&J.

England may not make much, but it is the world's best shopping destination for both the average consumer and men of more refined taste.

London has great stuff and compares well with the other big men's clothing/fashion destination, Tokyo.

The West End of London is one of my favourite places in the world. Between the wealthy bankers, the auctioneers, the artists, the media types and the various tourists and visitors from around the world, you really do see some great things. So many people in fine bespoke, so many unusual commissions (like the man in a royal blue corduroy suit). Ahh ...

I had a friend who once said: "In London, not only do Prada, Gucci, YSL, etc all have stores, but people actually buy their stuff and wear it around!".

London is a man's town. Paris is for the other half.

Don't be too impressed by the UK shopping scene, all of that fast fashion stuff comes at a cost.

Shopping in the States I have found staff are often more knowledgeable, and always helpful. Go outside of the hallowed shrines of menswear in the UK and you find staff know nothing, and are often not very helpful.

Whilst there is a great choice in fashion forward stuff there is a serious shortage of classics even in shops you would expect to carry them. I went suit shopping in January looking at both sale and non-sale items and many shops (including saville row OTR and jermyn street) and I struggled to find a simple two button navy suit. Aside from these flaws the range and choice in London is good, but go outside of London and your options rapidly decline.

Items that are not dull mainstream menswear, or the flavour of the month can be very hard to find outside of the Center of London. I think American's tend to underestimate the usefulness of Ralph Lauren and Brooks Brothers, they seem to be pretty much everywhere and carry a massive range of stuff, even if they don't have something in store they can order it for you, we have no equivalent, there are a couple of RL shops and a few BB but they don't serve the UK the way they do the US.

The ubiquity of Topshop, New look and worst of all Primark have transformed the majority of the under 30s into slavish followers of crappy, clone-like, disposable fashion that often looks appalling as people try and cram as many "trends" on at the same time. It leads to large quantities of clothing being dumped on Charity shops the majority of which will end up being turned into rags as the quality is often so poor charity shops won't sell it. I also find clothes from places like Topshop tend to look good from the distance, but up close they often look slightly shabby and bad, not always, but frequently.

Don't get me wrong, London is a great city and a lot of the people in it do dress very well, but the UK shopping and fashion scene are really not as good as people often think, and the slavish devotion to "trends" has replaced any knowledge about clothing at some cost.

Originally Posted by youngscientist

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Don't be too impressed by the UK shopping scene, all of that fast fashion stuff comes at a cost.

The ubiquity of Topshop, New look and worst of all Primark have transformed the majority of the under 30s into slavish followers of crappy, clone-like, disposable fashion that often looks appalling as people try and cram as many "trends" on at the same time. It leads to large quantities of clothing being dumped on Charity shops the majority of which will end up being turned into rags as the quality is often so poor charity shops won't sell it. I also find clothes from places like Topshop tend to look good from the distance, but up close they often look slightly shabby and bad, not always, but frequently.

Don't get me wrong, London is a great city and a lot of the people in it do dress very well, but the UK shopping and fashion scene are really not as good as people often think, and the slavish devotion to "trends" has replaced any knowledge about clothing at some cost.

Certainly this is true. I know all of the flaws of fast fashion, but the availability of clothing slim enough not to require alterations, costly in the West, is certainly a plus. That is one thing that RL, Brooks, etc. do not provide. Also, there are virtually no hip shoes available in the US and no quality ones retailing below 300 dollars. I see what you are saying about the slavishness of the young fashion people in England and I was thinking something similar. Beyond just fashion, the interesting thing about England - and this is from a very cursory examination - is that everyone is "cool" in a way. And I don't mean this completely positively. The norm in the States is to be a quite solid and somewhat obvlious to fashion whereas youngsters in England are all very up on what is current. Perhaps I am wrong about this. Somehow I feel that it is also reflected in the way they speak etc. It seems the idioms evolve much faster in england. It's critical for young people to be up on them. No one has patience for squares.

That said, I completely agree with you about fast fashion, which clearly both goes against the values of this forum, not to mention being completely unsustainable from an environmental and even spiritual standpoint. I do think the main appeal of these places is the slim fit. Even altering a shirt costs 25 dollars or more in the WEst.

It's interesting that you mention this tendency toward conformity. That is actually reflected in my research on the tie industry here in China. I was suprised to learn that the general consensus is that England is the best market for three reasons.

First, English are one of the best groups when it comes to paying on time.

Second, orders for the English market are huge and there is relatively little demand for numerous styles. Apparently, sometimes they order 1 million of the same black tie. I was expecting there to be less variety of styles in the States, given the size of the market. Primark and Next apparently place the very biggest orders for a single style outside of the Chinese postal service.

Third, quality requirements are not as high. Japan and Germany are very tough and the US can be as well. England has bigger demand for polyester ties and is not quite so exacting about the details. Obviously, there are plenty of exceptions to that. Ted Baker, though not a favorite here, is regarded in Shengzhou as one of the more complicated styles to produce.

You make some good points, I think there are a lot of strengths to the UK shopping scene, it is just not the sartorial nirvana some Americans seem to imagine.

The largest problem is we have lost any connection to our clothing traditions in a way that has not entirely happened in the states. I went to a friends bar mitzvah in NY when I was 12 or 13 and he and all his friends had a suit or blazer and trouerser, even the less well off had these, and they all looked relatively comfortable in them. A similar event in the UK would bring out a lot of kids looking horribly awkward in trousers and shirts in odd colours.
Many adults not required to have suits for work have nothing beyond jeans, maybe a pair of smarter trousers and an odd jacket (and it is frequently odd in appearance), if they do have anything smarter it is often an overly trendy (and concequently now slightly out of date) suit in black or ugly pin stripes. What you found out about ties is interesting, but not at all surprising.
This is both a consequence of, and I suspect a cause of the lack of classics, and particularly choice in your classics, in the UK shopping scene.

I suspect you might be right that trends, not just clothing ones, do seem to move faster amongst young people here, at least in London we do not have the same codified "tribes" of trends as there are in the states, although gothes, Emos etc. do exist and there are some persistent groups they tend to evolve and change quite quickly.


I guess there are strengths and weaknesses to both.

I've never seen trends in men's (particularly young men's) clothes cycle so fast as in London. It really is a 'fashion' town, and not always in a good way.

Which isn't to say Londoners don't have style, too, because they do...

During the London sales this year I noticed huge numbers of orientals.

Queues outside certain stores in Bond Street were almost exclusively oriental.

Partly weak GBP, partly strong Japanese yen, partly China is still economically doing ok. Relatively less bad.

Originally Posted by babygreenspots

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This is particularly the case for men, and it is on the low, medium, and high levels and secondhand. Sure, one can get a whole range of fine products in NYC, at a price. For the average fellow, the offerings of London are impossible to rival. One barely need mention the offerings on Jermyn street and Saville Row. Everything a gentleman needs is there and the fashion brands that dominate in the States are generally filtered out. There are shops that cater to the middle level customer like T. M. Lewin and Reiss. Whether he is a fussy traditionalist or a slavish fashionista, there is a good deal of choice. The low level is especially impressive though. Witnessing the London high street makes me wonder why exactly the US fashion retail scene is so weak. Topman provides for the hip young male better than any other chain. River Island, though ****** in quality, offers on-trend rags that are simply not available in the States. I hate to praise fast fashion, since we are all hoping it's heading toward its demise as consumers invest in better quality (see the latest issue of Newsweek). Still, the brands in England have been very clever about the whole thing. The amount of selection of shoes from the 10 pound to 1,000 pound levels, with few gaps, is perhaps the most impressive aspect of this. There is everything from Office, to Swear, to the selection in Topman, to Grenson, Barker and C&J. England may not make much, but it is the world's best shopping destination for both the average consumer and men of more refined taste.
As a New Yorker, I'll take your point with a grain of salt. Your claim is simply too broad. It implies that you have a full understanding of every portion of the mens clothing market. "Most developed for my preferences" is probably a better way to put it. So let's state this for what it really should say: For it's unique offerings like Saville Row, London is wonderful and can be found nowhere else. Or perhaps, for a reasonably traditional, sartorially inclined gentleman (particularly bespoke/MTM) that pays attention to his appearance, London's offerings are unlike any other market. I can only guess, but it does not appear that you are that famliar with Manhattan. Sure, there is no Saville Row but if you were familiar enough with New York, you'd know that there has been a Reiss here for practically a decade. Most of it is overpriced and Eurotrashy at best. And TopShop? Did you seriously just cite TopShop as a reason why London is better? Anyway, there is now a TopShop in New York as well. Realistically, except for garments made on Saville Row, most products are so commoditized that they are available in New York and Tokyo as well. If we're going to get into highend streetwear (not the completely disposable garbage), I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone to even consider that London is more developed than New York or Tokyo. And let's not even talk about prices...

I do think that the recent success of the London scene is due to a lot of convergent factors..
Firstly, the boom in the financial services has created a lot of young trendy women and men with a lot of disposable incomes..
I remember talking to my contacts in Mayfair and the money spent there was obscene...
The Italian ,French ,American designers were cashing up on that phenomenon.

The second point is the cultural link with American customers ...
They used to have large pockets and even in time of crisis ,the weakness of the pound is still helping....
The Row is surviving thanks to the American market and most of their good clients are not English.

London has good the right mix .....An heritage and a lot of cheap quick fashion (Topshop and others) to attract student from around the world ...

The future could be more complicated because the City is shedding more jobs than ever and the sacro-saint financial service boom days are over for a very long time..
The pound is so cheap that it is shocking and that could also change and penalise the London scene in the future.

In terms of overall selection, I doubt if London is really better than New York. But the overall experience is so much more civilized that I far prefer it.

Shopping in New York can sometimes take on the logistical characteristics of the Normandy invasion. But there are few things more pleasant than wandering down Jermyn Street on a Wednesday afternoon and then up the arcade to New Bond Street or Savile Row. It's all on such a human scale -- a completely different experience than New York. Of course, there's lots of other shopping in London outside of this small area.

Another thing I find unique in London is the number of places that are, for want of a better word, secrets. They don't really advertise, sometimes to the point of having only the smallest and least-notable sign concievable visible from the street. They typically deal in something fairly specific and have been doing so for a hundred and fifty years. I'm still discovering these places and doing so is always a pleasure, even if I have no interest whatsoever in bespoke fly-fishing rods or smoking caps or whatever other niche products they may be offering.

In England , there is still a strong sense of brand identity and values attached to it but we're talking about upmarket products..
I love the all Britishness atmosphear even if I'm not buying into it anymore being here for more than 12 years..
Harrod's SA are absolutely the worst on the planet...
They push you to buy clothes which are obviously ill-fitting ..i hate that shop and their ignrant SA...
i hate London cafes being served by an 18 year-old who doesn't want to be there ..

Yes & no to the OP on this one I think. As a London resident I appreciate the great variety available but there is always a vibe of the "grass is greener" too especially when looking at SF. There are so many brands especially in the SW&D section that NYC has that we don't. That being said I reckon Japan has even more in the way of desirable brands in SW&D. On the MC tip I reckon London takes it though.

In terms of overall selection, I doubt if London is really better than New York. But the overall experience is so much more civilized that I far prefer it.

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Having lived in London and Boston, I agree that the UK is much more fashion forward. Heck, all of Europe is, all my European friends dress much much better than Americans. But I don't think it has much to do with UK, I think UK fashion is very old school and American fashion follows that but with much less style.

You must forget that until recently UK commanded a 2:1 exchange rate against the dollar, so eveything in the UK that could be found in the US was almost twice the price.

That being said, it's a lot easier to dress well shopping in the UK, in the US you have to dig through vanila rubbish to get to something reasnoble, especially if you are slim and want your clothes to fit, where as in the UK it's harder to find a bargain over the US.