Things That Are Bothering You, Got You All Hibbeldy-Jibbeldy, or just downright pissed, RIGHT NOW!

[RedLantern]

Cross post this complaining to the home ownership thread and ask if maintenance costs were factored into the rent vs. buy decision.

Not responding to you specifically, but shouldn't maintenance costs be factored into market rent pricing? I guess maintenance and upkeep costs could be lower for high volume landlords due to economies of scale?

 

[Piobaire]

Not responding to you specifically, but shouldn't maintenance costs be factored into market rent pricing? I guess maintenance and upkeep costs could be lower for high volume landlords due to economies of scale?

Upkeep and cap-ex should certainly be part of a rental's pricing model but I think the point is certainty vs. uncertainty. Rent is rent, with predictable pricing increases and very low cost barrier to moving on if rent becomes untenable. With housing both general upkeep and cap-ex can come with uncertainty in regards to timing, as well as situational risk of price premiums, i.e. a new HVAC is going to cost a lot more in a Texas summer than it will in a Texas mild season.

Also, as houses age, cap-ex starts to go the grape route, i.e. it comes in bunches.

 

[RedLantern]

That's true, and all of that is another example of how rent/vs buy is a personal finance decision, as all of that should be of little consequence with proper (perfectly rational) budgeting.

 

[RedLantern]

I guess the way I think of it, renting is a forced budgeting tool in a similar way to buying being a forced savings tool.

 

[brokencycle]

That's true, and all of that is another example of how rent/vs buy is a personal finance decision, as all of that should be of little consequence with proper (perfectly rational) budgeting.

Budgeting is for the (non-NYC) middle class.

 

[otc]

That's true, and all of that is another example of how rent/vs buy is a personal finance decision, as all of that should be of little consequence with proper (perfectly rational) budgeting.

It is personal, but I like to think about the way the business property market works…where decisions have far reduced emotional attachment and are typically made by experienced professionals who aren’t swayed by what their mom always told them growing up.

Turns out when left to the professionals, ownership becomes far less common, even among those who could easily afford to own and intend to stay for very long periods of time. Leaving things like maintenance and upkeep to a professional landlord makes a lot of sense…they are probably better at it (e.g. have actual tradesmen on the payroll or lots of experience working with and bidding contractors) and they can spread unexpected costs across multiple properties.

Obviously there are some big differences in the nature of commercial vs residential leases, but this still holds some truth in my view. Also I’d argue many of those differences are driven by the way Americans are taught to think about housing (so leases end up catering only to those with less money or temporary needs).

 

[sugarbutch]

It is personal, but I like to think about the way the business property market works…where decisions have far reduced emotional attachment and are typically made by experienced professionals who aren’t swayed by what their mom always told them growing up.

Turns out when left to the professionals, ownership becomes far less common, even among those who could easily afford to own and intend to stay for very long periods of time. Leaving things like maintenance and upkeep to a professional landlord makes a lot of sense…they are probably better at it (e.g. have actual tradesmen on the payroll or lots of experience working with and bidding contractors) and they can spread unexpected costs across multiple properties.

Obviously there are some big differences in the nature of commercial vs residential leases, but this still holds some truth in my view. Also I’d argue many of those differences are driven by the way Americans are taught to think about housing (so leases end up catering only to those with less money or temporary needs).

This is probably pretty market- and industry-specific. Here in the People's Republic, high street businesses often seek to buy stability by owning their buildings and renting out residences above.

 

[otc]

This is probably pretty market- and industry-specific. Here in the People's Republic, high street businesses often seek to buy stability by owning their buildings and renting out residences above.

Depends on the size I guess?

Starbucks ain’t buying their locations and in fact they are a major target for RE owners (who think they win the lottery to get them as a tenant).

Office space is also much less frequently owned (other than like…custom built headquarters, which have similar parallels to the reasons for owning a home rather than renting).

 

[sugarbutch]

Depends on the size I guess?

Starbucks ain’t buying their locations and in fact they are a major target for RE owners (who think they win the lottery to get them as a tenant).

Office space is also much less frequently owned (other than like…custom built headquarters, which have similar parallels to the reasons for owning a home rather than renting).

Agreed on all points. I'm thinking of single-store retail, services, and restaurants. A lot of these which have become successful are very tied to their location, and having to move can lead to the death of the business.

 

[otc]

You mean T bar? I've never seen that in a house. A traditional drop ceiling in a house would be sheet rock and studs or lath and plaster in older ones

I just saw this in a real estate listing today:

edit: and here's a second listing that just went on the market today:

 

[beargonefishing]

I just saw this in a real estate listing today:

edit: and here's a second listing that just went on the market today:

Wtf is all I can think.

 

[Cause Moe]

I've seen it in poorly finished basements. Even a few not so poor.

 

[Numbernine]

Even got the drop in fluorescents Gaaaa!!!

 

[Cause Moe]

Probably drop-in LEDs.

 

[imatlas]

So I bought a house without seeing it. Yes, you can say, I'm an idiot. But I'm at sea 8 months, and I had my folks, my friends and my attorney look at it. They were like you need this one.

Many a small detail off and some big details. Luckily, I have the contractors to do the work I don't want to do. So, it'll be okay. I just realize my people don't have the level of attention to detail that I do.

Most of the downstairs has dropped ceilings. Lowering the ceilings 2.5 feet from as built 10.5 ft. Not traditional drop ceilings, but 1960s drywall. Can of worms with that. Nothing is easy.

Our kitchen had a dropped ceiling. Original height is 11', they'd lowered it to about 8.5, but they'd also "framed in" a vertical shaft under a massive skylight. Unfortunately their idea of framing it in was to wedge a bunch of shims under one of the corners that otherwise just rested on the new ceiling joists.

The day we took ownership our contractor cut a hole in the kitchen ceiling to see what he was dealing with, poked his head up to look around and said "never walk on your roof".