What's your favorite red wine?

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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Look, its hard to compare ca. cabernet to other parts of the world. I think most people would agree that a world class wine of equal quality in Spain, the loire valley, Australia, a CDP, etc, you can spend 1/4 to half money for the same level of quality.

Just got here. Looking to make enemies ASAP.

Vinousp is essentially correct, for now. The bargains aren't here, unless your tastes are VERY specifically focused on Cali Cabs.

I haven't read the whole thread... has the original author said what sort of wine he enjoys, or what sort he's interested in learning to enjoy??

holy cow... just checked.... he started the thread and never looked back...

dude, you live near napa... drink Napa and Sonoma and be happy. World wine is harder to find around there. And despite the many valid points made here, Napa and Sonoma wine is good enough and there's decent stuff at any price point. Run from winery to winery and find out what you like. Then find a huge wine store to call your own and get to know the owner, tell him what you've enjoyed and walk in every couple of days and ask, "got anything good for "x" dollars today?" And he'll have a new X-dollar recommendation EVERY SINGLE TIME you ask and every time he'll be sincere and off ya go. You're a happy wino just like that.

The rest of you, check out Domaine La Garrigues CdR for like... no dollars.

Expensive wines are not always good, good wines at good prices are increasingly hard to find and most good wines are overpriced.... Tough times are upon us.

Vinouspleasure:

I will not argue over tastes. It is simply an impossible thing to do rationally. Some people have developed palates, some do not. I find those that do not tend to go for sweeter, simpler wines or big, in your face wines over higher quality and more refined wines. So I can see why you could make the claim that in blind taste testings, a more costly bottle of wine would score with lower cost wines. It is not what many people are used to drinking therefore scores lower against the cheaper wines people are used to drinking. However, I am of the firm belief that if a bottle costs $7 and you like it, that makes it "good" wine for you and if you do not like a $100 bottle of wine, it is "bad" for you no matter how many wine lovers with developed palates like it.

For instance, my palate is still developing with Champaignes. Give me a blind taste test and I would probably put the one with the highest residual sugar content over more expensive bottles that are drier. Might I academically appreciate the roasted nut and toast nuances in a good Krug? Sure. But blind taste test me and you are just going to get what I like to taste, which at this point in time with bubbly, is going to revolve around residual sugar content probably. With pinots, the story will be vastly different. Give me a cheap, flabby, big fruit pinot blind and it will compare poorly for me against a nuanced, balanced, pinot with some firm structure and the ability to age.

So, final word to you I guess. I am happy with what is in my cellar and that is really all that concerns me. I check what I pay against community pricing on cellartracker, and I almost always underpay so I am fine with my pricing too. Btw, great web-based program for tracking your inventory, will spit out several useful reports and d/l into Excel. Handy when you have 100's of bottles. If someone here asks my opinion, I'll give it, but really the best advice is just to drink wine and figure out what you like.

I would say that NAPA/Sonoma produce markedly better tasting and less expensive wines than France. Not to mention that original vine was all but dead in France and was re-exported from California. Which means France and US have the same grape vine but very different climate and soils.

French wine offerings are oversaturated with watery, mediocre wines that are overpriced-simply because they are French. It is even more evident in Europe where French wine is still keeping the myth going.
I recently returned from Vienna and I can assure you that even in EU capital one would be hard -pressed to find anything decent to drink. Poor Europeans are still consuming horrible wines at ridiculous prices.
If one would look for a real quality among French made products I would firstly advise to forget about French wines and consider French Cognacs, many of which are still very high quality.
French wines are a dying industry supported by EU welfare program due to lack of demand. And no, it is not because the rest of the world likes sweet tasting, cheap wine. It is in my opinion, because France consistently failed to produce solid low to mid priced red wines.

For anyone who may be interested, the Food Section in yesterday's LA Times has a listed of recommended American Pinot Noirs priced at $25 or less. I believe the Food section is available online.

Tempranillo, Albarino, Zinfandel.

Originally Posted by lawyerdad

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For anyone who may be interested, the Food Section in yesterday's LA Times has a listed of recommended American Pinot Noirs priced at $25 or less. I believe the Food section is available online.
Here's the link: http://www.latimes.com/features/food...ck=1&cset=true For a while, you could not go wrong buying almost any central coast (ie. Santa Barbara county) pinot noir. --Andre

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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Vinouspleasure: So I can see why you could make the claim that in blind taste testings, a more costly bottle of wine would score with lower cost wines. It is not what many people are used to drinking therefore scores lower against the cheaper wines people are used to drinking.
well, no thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you, Piobare, were to try the BVG in a blind tasting along with a number of well selected $30 wines, you would not prefer the BVG. I am also saying that people that know wine would also tell you that the BVG is not better than $30 wine in a blind tasting. Finally, I'll add that I believe most people in the wine business will tell you that BVG is overpriced for whats in the bottle when compared to other ca. cabs.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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well, no thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying if you, Piobare, were to try the BVG in a blind tasting along with a number of well selected $30 wines, you would not prefer the BVG. I am also saying that people that know wine would also tell you that the BVG is not better than $30 wine in a blind tasting. Finally, I'll add that I believe most people in the wine business will tell you that BVG is overpriced for whats in the bottle when compared to other ca. cabs.
I make no claims to being a sommelier but I should think it should be apparent that neither am I swilling $2 Buck Chuck and thinking I am drinking DRC. One thing I am an expert in though, is what I like. That is all I think anyone really needs to be expert in to enjoy wine. Here are some of the recent vintages of this wine I have. I like the style. So does my wife. Makes it a no-brainer that I have some in my cellar. http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=244125 http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=112309 http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=8710 http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=2704 Now, please give me some names of these $30 cabs. In fact, I might have some of them in my cellar; it is not like I have a thousand or so bottles of just BVG (nor even am I heavy Cab, I prefer PN).

as you say, if you like the wine and don't mind the tariff, have at it. I haven't followed the ca cab scene (or the ca scene) for the last couple of years since there is so little value for the money. When prices went north of $40, I stopped buying but I still have a lot of arajuo, dunn, togni, insignia, etude, saddleback, venge, mondavi reserve , montelena and ridge montebello that I bought for $40 or less.

Off of the top of my head, vintage to vintage, these wines will outperform the bvg for much less money:

hess collection
robert mondavi napa
saddleback cab
ridge santa cruz


I was served the 2004 1975 Amber Knolls Vineyard over he holiday. That will do it as well.

Switchback Ridge Merlot...If you can get it, you will not be dissapointed.

Originally Posted by vinouspleasure

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as you say, if you like the wine and don't mind the tariff, have at it. I haven't followed the ca cab scene (or the ca scene) for the last couple of years since there is so little value for the money. When prices went north of $40, I stopped buying but I still have a lot of arajuo, dunn, togni, insignia, etude, saddleback, venge, mondavi reserve , montelena and ridge montebello that I bought for $40 or less.

Off of the top of my head, vintage to vintage, these wines will outperform the bvg for much less money:

hess collection
robert mondavi napa
saddleback cab
ridge santa cruz


I was served the 2004 1975 Amber Knolls Vineyard over he holiday. That will do it as well.

I need bottlings to compare. I have not looked yet, but I know Hess and Mondavi, each of which I own multiple bottlings of, need this info and assume Saddleback and Ridge do to. I can tell you, for instance, the Mondavi Reserve is a little more than BVG in question usually and is of a different style and usually needs longer cellaring. BVG for the last decade or so has a much softer and integrated quality to it than the Mondavi Reserve bottling and can be enjoyed younger. Or are you referencing just his plain old http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=403774 for about $20 a bottle worth about 83 points? (Which is still not a bad QPR, but in that price point I prefer a pinot noir every time).

Originally Posted by sweisman

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Switchback Ridge Merlot...If you can get it, you will not be dissapointed.
Unless you were hoping to NOT pay 80 bucks for a bottle of Merlot. I just have a hard time making recommendations to people without including price. My favorite red wine? At what price point? In what style? To go with what? I'd have a hard time answering even with all of those filled in, but with no qualifiers at all, I just don't see how my answer could be very valuable. And I'm awfully amused by the posts that named all the first growths, like they're their breakfast wines -- and no regard for price, nor vintage. "Sure go drink yourself a lovely 84 Lafite for 300 or so." Terrific advice for the fellow from Northern California.

Originally Posted by Piobaire

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I need bottlings to compare. I have not looked yet, but I know Hess and Mondavi, each of which I own multiple bottlings of, need this info and assume Saddleback and Ridge do to. I can tell you, for instance, the Mondavi Reserve is a little more than BVG in question usually and is of a different style and usually needs longer cellaring. BVG for the last decade or so has a much softer and integrated quality to it than the Mondavi Reserve bottling and can be enjoyed younger. Or are you referencing just his plain old http://www.cellartracker.com/wine.asp?iWine=403774 for about $20 a bottle worth about 83 points? (Which is still not a bad QPR, but in that price point I prefer a pinot noir every time).

I'm pretty sure the 20 dollar Mondavi (and that's a really good price for it, btw) has been generally considered well better than 83 points these past couple of years.
Personally, I'd rather have your BV. I haven't been crazy about the Mondavi Napa.
I'm looking forward to a 1997 RM reserve this evening as it happens. Fully expect it will be quite drinkable.