30% cashback on ebay.

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

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i dont understand how they can prevent anyone from committing fraud by setting up a large BIN auction and creating another paypal account to purchase from himself and to receive the 30% cashback.

that is why i only believe in this sort of online rebate program to only be allowed to be used for stores/online stores.


Good point, but I would think if numerous cash back rebates are going into the same purchase/e-bay account they will get suspicious. You might be able to get away with it a few times. Might be more trouble than it's worth. But if $200 is the max, then you get away with it 3-4 times, minus all e-bay fees (insertion and final value) and paypal, you could still walk away with a few hundred bucks. I wouldn't do it, not because I see it as "wrong," but because I can't be bothered with this. But I guess if I were starving and going hungry or daddy needed a new pair of shoes, I'd be all over it!

I think there is large scale fraud going on. The way they counteract this is by canceling cashback for many slightly suspicious purchases, even if legit.

Among my friends, we have considered at least having a "2-step cashback" for any purchase we make. For example, my friend wants an Iphone. instead of him buying it, I buy it, and then sell it to him, again getting the 30%. We haven't tried it yet though. Someone do it and report back

but who's to say anybody can just put up a fake auction like a 10,000 dollar motor bike for example BIN, have a friend or someone "purchase" it, get the 30% off, and then share that 30% between each other?
you dont even need anybody to actually buy anything (iphone or anything). just put up a 'used car' or television or anything of hefty BIN and rack up the 30% one time.

i see the flaw in this discount and i agree with you, lots of people out there will be taking advantage of the loophole.

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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I think there is large scale fraud going on. The way they counteract this is by canceling cashback for many slightly suspicious purchases, even if legit.

Among my friends, we have considered at least having a "2-step cashback" for any purchase we make. For example, my friend wants an Iphone. instead of him buying it, I buy it, and then sell it to him, again getting the 30%. We haven't tried it yet though. Someone do it and report back

Interesting. I'm not acknowledging this is fraudulent. If there is no rule against, it, why not? I want a PS3 and so does my friend. I wonder if we can do this for each other...

that's what im saying. let say anything like a pair of edward greens or pair of dior 19cm, or a jacket that you get at the store,

bring it back and put it up on ebay, sell it to yourself through a second paypal and receive the 30% off extra.

i dont get it they did not catch this loophole.

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

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that's what im saying. let say anything like a pair of edward greens or pair of dior 19cm, or a jacket that you get at the store,

bring it back and put it up on ebay, sell it to yourself through a second paypal and receive the 30% off extra.

i dont get it they did not catch this loophole.

brilliant. now try it and let us know how it goes! (Not that I don't think it will work, it certainly will). But remember, there is a $200 max, unfortunately.

Originally Posted by teddieriley

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brilliant. now try it and let us know how it goes!

(Not that I don't think it will work, it certainly will). But remember, there is a $200 max, unfortunately.

oh i see 200 max. i didnt see that one.

so to make the most of it you got to get something that is exactly 666 dollars.

Originally Posted by sho'nuff

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oh i see 200 max. i didnt see that one.

so to make the most of it you got to get something that is exactly 666 dollars.

well, remember you shell out for listing fees, final value and paypal if you do it yourself. If you do the "2-step sale" as posted above you can get your friend to cover your listing and final value fee if you re-list for him. still worth some savings.

Rest assured they will cancel any cashback sale where both the buyer and the seller have logged in recently from the same IP address. This is fraud detection 101.

However, say you and your friend talk on IM all day. You live in the same general area but 30 miles apart. You list your item from your house and then call your friend, your friend buys it from his house. I have a hard time believing eBay can track this. I mean I've sold items and shipped to addresses 10 miles away before, and they were legit.

Considering that you must use Paypal in the transaction, lets break down the fees for a $666.00 item (to max out $200 cashback).

ebay insertion: $4.00
final value fee: $26.xx
paypal fees: $20.xx

wild card shipping fee (if you want to be bullet-proof, you should ship something): $10.00

total cost: $50-60. Cashback (after waiting 60 days - the value of waiting so long should not be de-emphasized): $200

$140 worth it? IMHO it is, if you are buying something you already intended to buy, like say a $900 laptop. Get your 30% discount when you buy it, get the laptop, double dip as far as you have the balls for.

Personally, I don't plan to do it.

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Rest assured they will cancel any cashback sale where both the buyer and the seller have logged in recently from the same IP address. This is fraud detection 101.

However, say you and your friend talk on IM all day. You live in the same general area but 30 miles apart. You list your item from your house and then call your friend, your friend buys it from his house. I have a hard time believing eBay can track this. I mean I've sold items and shipped to addresses 10 miles away before, and they were legit.

Considering that you must use Paypal in the transaction, lets break down the fees for a $666.00 item (to max out $200 cashback).

ebay insertion: $4.00
final value fee: $26.xx
paypal fees: $20.xx

wild card shipping fee (if you want to be bullet-proof, you should ship something): $10.00

total cost: $50-60. Cashback (after waiting 60 days - the value of waiting so long should not be de-emphasized): $200

$140 worth it? IMHO it is, if you are buying something you already intended to buy, like say a $900 laptop. Get your 30% discount when you buy it, get the laptop, double dip as far as you have the balls for.

Personally, I don't plan to do it.

im not planning on doing this too but im suspicious some people will turn this over multiple times in volume 200 * X number of times. i dont know

i was just pointing out this loophole.

I think they will get quite suspicious if purchases are made back and forth between the same 2 people or even the same 5 people. It would only work well if you did it once and would get much more likely to be canceled with each additional sale.

If you sold items back and forth between 2 people it would certainly look suspicious. In other words, it is very hard to scale beyond 3-4 transactions. It's also nearly impossible to get people you don't know that well to agree to it, because of the large dollar amounts which have to be transacted (is your new co-worker going to agree to pay you $600 through paypal? If you pay him $600 cash first, do you trust him to finish his end of the bargain?)

Trust me, I've mulled over all the angles while sitting in traffic.

Originally Posted by Tarmac

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Trust me, I've mulled over all the angles while sitting in traffic.

haha . nice

People are all over this loophole but so is Microsoft. There are reports of legitimate cashback being denied as Microsoft tries to weed out the fraudulent ones. Unfortunate casualties. Here are the terms.

Originally Posted by Microsoft Live Terms Section 17

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...You will not earn cashback rewards on purchases where... (f) the goods or services are acquired for resale or other business purposes... ...Microsoft may disqualify transactions, seek return of previously paid cashback rewards, refuse redemptions and/or close your account at any time if you participate in any fraud or abuse relating to the service (including conducting "sham" transactions or otherwise colluding with merchants), make any misrepresentation in connection with your participation in the service or do not comply with this contract...
Here's where it gets interesting regarding resale.

Originally Posted by Microsoft Live Terms Section 17

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In the event of a conflict between any of these terms and conditions and those disclosed on the merchant site, the ones disclosed on the merchant site will apply and control.
and

Originally Posted by eBay Terms

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In the event of a conflict between these additional terms and the Microsoft Program Terms, the terms below are controlling for your participation in the Program on www.eBay.com.
There's three general ways to take advantage of this in ways that MS didn't intend. 1. Obviously if you "sell" something to yourself or someone you know without any actual exchange of product then that's a sham transaction. If you do this without being an idiot (same name/address on accounts, $666 amount, same IP, etc) then you could probably do this once or twice. 2. Buying something (iPhone, PS3, whatever) and reselling it to your friend so that you each collect the cashback falls under (f) resale but eBay's controlling terms allows resale! I suppose that selling to a friend may be colluding with merchants. 3. There are expensive, easy to ship products circulating around and around on eBay from one Live Cashback seller to another, each round probably netting 20% if you figure in fees/shipping. I'm talking Ipod Touches, gold coins, Forever stamps, etc. Resale on eBay is allowed and it's not collusion because these people are strangers. There's always going to be a small group of people that take advantage of these things, some breaking the rules outright and others stretching it to the limit.

Originally Posted by HomerJ

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There's always going to be a small group of people that take advantage of these things, some breaking the rules outright and others stretching it to the limit.

It's inevitable that people will try this. I'm also convinced that MS isn't stupid enough to let things get out of hand. They probably paid plenty of money to consultants and focus groups to figure out all the angles. People are free to try, but MS has the last laughs when they just outright deny the rebates, and the fraudsters are out of their eBay and Paypal fees.

all they have to do if they get denied the rebate is to

have the paypal transaction fully refunded (paypal fee is reversed) and do a mutual non sale on the ebay transaction (get a refund on the ebay final fee). only thing they will be out is the auction setup fee.